FLAGSTAFF PUBLIC LIBRARY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Anna Ryan
Interview number NAU.OH.28.81

Anna Ryan, who came to Flagstaff in 1919 as a new bride. Her husband, Will Ryan, had come to the area in 1913 for his health and was employed at the Dolan mill at the time of their marriage. (Mrs. Elsie Pyland is also included in the interview). Interview conducted by Kristine Prennace on July 29, 1976. Transcribed by Jardee Transcription, February 2000.

Outline of Subjects Covered in Taped Interview

Tape 1, Side 1

Born in 1893 in Mattoon, Wisconsin

Parents

Father, Killian Sipple, Austria

Mother also from Austria

Soomerbareger, Austria

Father’s occupation

Worked in lumber industry

Brothers and sisters

Mary Sipple Vine

Tressa Potswell

Irene Holly

Killian

Joe

George

Schooling in Aniwa, Wisconsin

Came to Flagstaff to be married in 1919

Husband came in 1913

First day experience story

Three men shot on Front Street

Husband’s first job in flagstaff at mill

Mill in Williams - Saginaw

Mr. Dolan and mill

Different mills

Downtown area, described

Drugstore

Cleaning Shop

Fleming’s Hotel

Mrs. Fleming was a McMillan

Own residence at mill

Named by Ruth Burris’s father

Segregated housing

AL&T housing

House on N. Humphreys Street

House owned by Catholic Church, originally

Highland Park, name of mill housing

Children, discussed

Jim, Tom

Schooling

Neighbors at Highland Park

Pylands

Burrises

Valentines

Nichols

At AL&T – Milton

Donals

Joneses

Burnhelms

McElroys

Steinmetz

Donnelsons

Britt, discussed

Zane Grey, discussed

His cabin on Highway 89A

Lee Doyle, discussed

Social life of community

Tape 1, Side 2

Social life, continued

Card parties

Prizes

St. Patrick’s Day festivities

Catholic Church, discussed

Clergymen

Father Vabre

Father Vorst

Father Albouy

Special responsibilities

President of the Altar Society

Dinners, bazaars, parties

Mrs. George Babbitt

Design of church, Father Albouy

Ceremonies at church

Christenings

Weddings

Funerals

Cemetery

City government

Flagstaff and the rest of Arizona

Learning to drive a car

World War I

Train trip to Flagstaff

Prohibition and bars on Front Street

Depression of 1930’s

Fires

Fire and police departments, discussed

County jail

World War II

Ordnance Depot

Flooding

Course of Rio de Flag

Droughts

Water from Winslow

Big snows

4 or 5 college students killed in a sled accident by college

Mrs. Lindemann’s influence to clean up accident scene

Flu epidemic

Father dug graves

Other ethnic groups

Chinese families – Junes

Tape 2, Side 1

Other ethnic groups, continued

Blacks at the Cady mill

Indians

Fourth of July celebrations

Tourism

Oak Creek Canyon, driving down

East Flagstaff, discussed

This is an interview with Mrs. Anna Ryan, who came to Flagstaff in 1919 as a new bride. Her husband, Will Ryan, had come to the area in 1913 for his health, and was employed at the Dolan Mill at the time of their marriage. The interview is being conducted on July 29, 1976, at Mrs. Ryan's home located at 214 North Humphreys, in Flagstaff, by Kristine Prennace representing the Flagstaff City-Coconino County Public Library. [Mrs. Elsie Pyland is also included in the interview. (Interviewer's note)]

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Mrs. Ryan, when and where were you born?

ANNA RYAN: In Mattoon, Wisconsin.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: And do you mind giving the year that you were born?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, 1893. (laughs)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Who were your parents?

ANNA RYAN: Mr. and Mrs. Killian Sipple, K-I-L-L-I-A-N S-I-P-P-L-E. They were born in Austria. ____________.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh, so they were immigrants. Now, what was your mother's maiden name?

ANNA RYAN: Sommerbareger. Now, can you spell it? (laughs) "Soomer" is summer, and "bare-ger" is hill. It would be Summerhill (translation?).

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That's interesting. Okay. They came from Austria, and they settled almost immediately in Wisconsin?

ANNA RYAN: In Mattoon, Wisconsin.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What kind of work did your father do?

ANNA RYAN: He was a lumberman. He was taking care of the lumber: kind of a grader, too, but still he had the lumber yard, taking care of the lumber yard. That's what he was doing, in the lumber business there. Tellin’ them where all the lumber: the pine and the hardwood and all that went, where they had to pile it. See, they piled it in different piles. Maybe this row would be hardwood. Maybe the other one would be pine. Something like that. He'd have to see that they all got in the place. So he was really a yard man.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: And did you have any brothers or sisters?

ANNA RYAN: I had three brothers and three sisters.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Since this will probably be for your family also to listen to, why don't we get their names down?

ANNA RYAN: Well, let's see if I can think of it. Before Aunt Mary has been gone, I'm the oldest of the girls, and there's only two of us left. And that's Tressa and myself. Do you want the one that passed away, too?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Sure. Why don't we get it all down, in case your family ever wanted to look up, find out who your relatives were.

ANNA RYAN: I'll start from the oldest girl down?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Sure, that's fine.

ANNA RYAN: That's me, Anna Ryan. Do you want my maiden name? Sipple. And then there's Mary Sipple.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What was her married name?

ANNA RYAN: You know, I can't remember. I don't know. She was married three times, and so I don't know what her.... But her FIRST marriage was Vine. Vine was the first one. And then comes Tressa. Her name is.... Oh, why can't I think of their names? They're from Milwaukee, I know. Elmer Potswell!

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That's hard, when you have a big family, to remember them.

ANNA RYAN: I should, but you know when you don't hear from 'em as often as you used to do, and they're living in Florida now, you just get away from 'em. And Irene. What was Irene's.... Now, I should know her, because she just passed away not too long ago. And then of course, you know the children. I haven't heard from them, and I wrote to them and bawled 'em out because they didn't write.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So that was Irene Holly? That's the other sister. And then all we need are your brothers' first names.

ANNA RYAN: That's Killian, Joe, and George.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did any of them come out to Flagstaff with you?

ANNA RYAN: My brother George came out and surprised me. And of course I went to Wisconsin! I went to Wisconsin on Wednesday and he came out on Sunday. Just making a tour of the West, and were on their way to California. He went over to Mrs. Inman [phonetic spelling] and asked her - we had some homes over here, you know - and he wanted to know about me. She said, "Well, she's in Wisconsin!"

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, shoot!

ANNA RYAN: And my brother Killian has been out here.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Just on a visit?

ANNA RYAN: Just on a visit.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So all your schooling would have been back in Wisconsin?

ANNA RYAN: All back in Wisconsin.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: One-room schoolhouse?

ANNA RYAN: Well, yes, in Aniwa it was a one-room schoolhouse. And it was just in the lower grades that I went. Had to be home to take care of the babies and things like that.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay. Now, I can start asking you about WHEN you came to Flagstaff and why you came here.

ANNA RYAN: Well, Mister [i.e., narrator's husband] liked it out here so well and everything like that, and of course we got married you see. I knew his sister, and his sister and I were pals. And they were Bohemian, and of course, you know, the Bohemians, boy, they're family. So Will and I… he got to writing to me. I guess he must have talked to his mother and them first about getting married. So I think she helped it. So we started corresponding back and forth, and the first thing I know, I got a proposal. So we had our big wedding back home and came out here. That's how I came out here, as a bride.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: And he was out here several years before then?

ANNA RYAN: Six years before I came.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That was in 1914, you said?

ANNA RYAN: In 1913.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: You told me the story before, but I'd really like to get it on tape, about the first day you came.

ANNA RYAN: (laughs) Well, you know, he came out here and of course went to the Commercial. As I say, he went to Williams, around, he didn't like _____________. So he thought he’d go down to the sawmill. And as he come out of the Commercial - and of course you know where Black's Bar is, and you know where the Commercial was - well, a man came out of the saloon, and there's a man standing on the corner, and he shot him. He fell dead. Well, the man in the saloon went to work and shot the man that shot the first man. And another man shot (laughs) the OTHER man, down on the sidewalk. All three of them. He said, "I wanted to go back! If there'd have been a train there...." Not until the next morning. He said, "I went back and packed my suitcase and went home." (laughter)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: You can imagine!

ANNA RYAN: Oh, I tell ya', he was afraid to go out! He said, "I tell ya', when you see three men killed right in front of you...." Oh, I came out here, even after that. See, that was one saloon there, that whole block, down. And across the street, too, there was one. And the post office was across the street. I don't know what building is in there now, there - what was there. And of course when I came out, it was in where Nackard used to have their clothing store. (inaudible)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Down around San Francisco Street.

ANNA RYAN: San Francisco Street, uh-huh.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: You mentioned before your husband came out for his health.

ANNA RYAN: He was afraid. They DID come out for his health, yes.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, you told me also - I'd like to get this on tape - where he started to work, and it was very shortly after he arrived here.

ANNA RYAN: Yeah, he arrived here - I don't know, it was Thursday, Friday, or Saturday, I don't know which one day he got here. As a matter of fact, he went down to a mill on a Monday and started to work on a Wednesday.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Quick employment.

ANNA RYAN: He sure did. And he worked for that company, oh, I don't know for how many years. Then Dolan sold out and we moved to Williams. And then Dolan come back in business again.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Over in AL&T then?

ANNA RYAN: AL&T, up there again. He went back up there again. Then of course - well, he passed away then.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: But he worked many, many years for the lumber Company.

ANNA RYAN: Oh yes, always did, many years, for the lumber company. Goodman, Wisconsin, first, and then come out here. That's all he ever did.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What mill was over in Williams then?

ANNA RYAN: That I couldn't tell you.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: We talked about that yesterday. It wasn't Saginaw-Manistee?

ANNA RYAN: Saginaw-Manistique.(sic) [Tr.'s note: I was born and raised in Michigan. I believe the lumber company is named after two cities there, Saginaw and Manistee.]

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That's what it was. Okay, I wasn't sure.

ANNA RYAN: It was Manistique. (sic) Mr. Johnson was kind of the head man at that. And he lives in Cottonwood now.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh. That isn't William Johnson, is it?

ANNA RYAN: No, it isn't William Johnson, but I think he has a brother named by that. Oh, what IS his name? I'll tell you, he lives right next door to Knoleses, down in Cottonwood there. He lives right next door to Knoleses there.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh, yes, that's an old family.

ANNA RYAN: Uh-huh.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, let's see, what else can we talk.... Now, you said the Dolans owned that mill before Mr. Cady came out.

ANNA RYAN: Oh, yes. Now, Cady's the one that brought HER out. (laughter)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Right. ELSIE PYLAND?: Yes, he did, Dolan owned that.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did he leave for quite a while and then....

ANNA RYAN: Come back again.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Then went to AL&T?

ANNA RYAN: AL&T, uh-huh, and bought that for a place.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now that was after the Riordans had owned it, right?

ANNA RYAN: Yes.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, I'm trying to get all these mill owners straight.

ANNA RYAN: I think it was the Riordans that sold to Dolan.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Probably was.

ANNA RYAN: Because I remember no one else had ever owned that mill beside the Riordans.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Maybe Mr. Ayers did a LONG, long, long time ago, there.

ANNA RYAN: I don't know just what their names were now, whether they owned it or whether he was just working for 'em, I don't know.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, and so you were married in....

ANNA RYAN: In 1919.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, that's when you came.

ANNA RYAN: That's when I came out here.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: We talked a little bit about Front Street. What was the rest of the downtown area like?

ANNA RYAN: Well, I'll tell you, it was pretty much the same what it is now, except there was a drugstore on the corner of Beaver - is that Beaver over there?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: The next street over?

ANNA RYAN: Yes.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Uh-huh.

ANNA RYAN: That was a drugstore there. But I think it was almost pretty much the same. Oh, there was a cleaning shop around there someplace. And down from where Flemings had their hotel, I can't remember of any buildings being down there, except that restaurant. And then from there on, I don't remember.

ELSIE PYLAND: Well, there were homes, you know, almost up to the hotel, the old Fleming Hotel.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh.

ANNA RYAN: Homes up to what?

ELSIE PYLAND: The Fleming Hotel. So that may have been homes there, then.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, the Fleming, you mean just north of the tracks, or just south of the road?

ELSIE PYLAND: It's north of the tracks here.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, right down by....

ELSIE PYLAND: Across from the depot.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay. Now, that's the Bank Hotel? Is that the same one?

ELSIE PYLAND: They call it the Bank Hotel now. I think the lettering is still up on it.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, the Flemings owned it then.

ELSIE PYLAND: Fleming's owned it. And they still DO. They still own it.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Own the building and changed it.

ELSIE PYLAND: Now, they were just up here not too long ago to have it remodeled.

ANNA RYAN: Mrs. Fleming was a McMillan.

ELSIE PYLAND: Yes, she was a McMillan.

ANNA RYAN: And her parents were one of the first settlers here. McMillan Heights out here, you know.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Uh-huh. Okay. And where did you live in town? Where was your house?

ANNA RYAN: Across by the sawmill. What was the name of that place? I was trying to think of it the other day. I told her yesterday, ‘cause I told her, there was no street. The houses sat around, you know. There was a driveway and a walkway."

ELSIE PYLAND: I thought of it the other day. Things have been going kind of over in my mind since you HAVE talked to me. [see Mrs. Pyland's interview in this same project, conducted July 28, 1976] You know?

ANNA RYAN: Ruth Burris' father came from a town in California and named that little area.

ELSIE PYLAND: Yes, uh-huh. They came from....

ANNA RYAN: I told her yesterday, I know it just as well.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: It was the mill housing, though?

ANNA RYAN: It was all mill housing, uh-huh. From the mill, this row of houses here was ALL Mexicans. Then we come this way. Then all us white folks lived on this side. (comment obscured by laughing) Oh! I want to say Kipley, but it isn't Kipley. Fella is right, he's right. Listened to the TV the other day and they was talking about forgetting and all this and that and everything, and the fellah said, "Well, the plane's above and the car's below and we're in the middle. How can we remember with all this gas?"

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I'm sorry, then you stayed there until you moved to Williams?

ANNA RYAN: No, then we moved.... Oh, what's the name of that street?

ELSIE PYLAND: Agassiz?

ANNA RYAN: Agassiz - we moved there. THEN we moved to Williams. We moved to Williams, were there just a year when they called Will to come back. So that's when Dolan bought. But I don't remember what year that's in.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That's okay. Then you moved back. Did you live in mill housing again?

ANNA RYAN: Then we moved up in Milton there. And then Mister passed away, and with his insurance.... Father owned these places. There's a man here who was a bachelor. When he passed away, he owned these four houses here, right here in this block here. And when he passed away, he willed it to the church. And then Father.... ___________ knew his name a long time.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Was it Vabre?

ANNA RYAN: Vabre, Father Vabre. He passed away, and of course then we had a different priest. Then Father McCarthy came up here. The bishop then, we got a new bishop, the bishop from Phoenix, and the bishop from Gallup. So the bishop from Gallup, he didn't believe [in] churches owning property, so he sold it. So I [took] Mister's insurance money, and bought the house.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Nice little home.

ANNA RYAN: So I moved out here then.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Do you remember the man's name that did own this before he gave it to the church? You said he was a bachelor.

ANNA RYAN: No, I don't remember his name. I don't know as I ever heard it. Just a man, just a man, that's all. A bachelor, a man that was a bachelor. No, I don't remember. As I say, I don't even know if I heard his name or not. But I suppose there's church records.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, that's okay.

ANNA RYAN: Did you ever think of the name yet?

ELSIE PYLAND: Highland.

ANNA RYAN: Highland Park!

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Highland Park is the name of it. You DID tell me yesterday, didn't you?

ELSIE PYLAND: Yes, and it just came to me, it wasn't a bit of trouble! (laughs) I just told her.

ANNA RYAN: Highland Park. That was named through Ruth Burris' father.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay.

ELSIE PYLAND: He needed a name, instead of just "those houses over at the mill." You know, people, it needed a name so they'd know where they were going and what we were talking about.

ANNA RYAN: And they were really the first ones that lived there.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, that's interesting. Now, you had children?

ANNA RYAN: Two boys.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: And what are their names?

ANNA RYAN: Jim Ryan and Tom Ryan. Jim was born in Wisconsin and Tom was born in Arizona.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Here in Flagstaff?

ANNA RYAN: Flagstaff.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay. And do they still live here?

ANNA RYAN: Yes. Tom just come from Okinawa.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, he's in the service?

ANNA RYAN: No, he's a missile inspector. He's working for the government. I think he's been in Germany, Italy, England.... You see all my knickknacks around here are all from foreign countries. (laughs) Yeah, the government sent him back. [It went up?] as the strangest thing. You know, he was supposed to be transferred - he was over there four years. You can volunteer to stay. You're supposed to stay two years, but you can volunteer to stay longer. So they liked it so well they asked to stay [another] two years. But then you see, the boys are gettin' in college, David is ready for college. So went to college and he put in for California, New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah, because he wanted to be near home. And when he got his assignment, it was, "You are assigned to Navajo Depot, Flagstaff, Arizona," where he STARTED from! (laughter)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So he did end up right back here.

ANNA RYAN: They're happy about their home and everything. Of course he can retire if he wants to, but he doesn't want to.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, that's great. So they were educated here in town?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, yes, they were educated here.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What school did they go to?

ANNA RYAN: Sisters, Catholic school. And then college. I mean, high school. And Jimmy wouldn't go to college, but Thomas wanted to go to college. He did, he had a year-and-a-half of it, and he was drafted.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: But he did go to Arizona State Teachers' College then?

ANNA RYAN: No, university.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: It had a different name?

ELSIE PYLAND: When he went, Mrs. Ryan, it was State. See, it hasn't been the university but a few years. When Tom and Martha went up there, it was the Arizona State Teachers' College.

ANNA RYAN: That's right, you're right.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, it's gone through a lot of name [changes].

ANNA RYAN: See, I told you I had to have SOMEBODY help me out!

KRISTINE PRENNACE: (laughs) You're doin' fine. Okay, now we talked about.... I know Mrs. Pyland was ONE of your neighbors - do you remember any others? The Burrises, and you said ________.

ANNA RYAN: Valentine, Nichols. Was there anyone else? Joneses.

ELSIE PYLAND: Oh, up here.

ANNA RYAN: Oh, you mean, up here? Or over there at the mill?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Were you talking about Highland Park?

ANNA RYAN: Well, is that what you wanted?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That's fine. Either place, that's fine.

ANNA RYAN: Yeah, that was Highland Park. And up there in Milton there, there was the Dolans and you know, ________ Peris.

ELSIE PYLAND: Yes.

ANNA RYAN: Well, Joneses for one.

ELSIE PYLAND: There were two Joneses, weren't there? Two families of Jones.

ANNA RYAN: Were there two families [named] Jones?

ELSIE PYLAND: Uh-huh.

ANNA RYAN: Well, the same Joneses lived up there that lived over in Highland Park. Burnhelms, ____ Bernhelms.

ELSIE PYLAND: Yes.

ANNA RYAN: And McElroy? (pause)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, it's a long time ago. I'm surprised you can remember.

ELSIE PYLAND: It isn't that we can't remember it - you just can't call it, you know?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, you can see their faces probably.

ELSIE PYLAND: Yes.

ANNA RYAN: You know, that one fellah there was a policeman down here for a long time, and his son gave me a beautiful Indian bracelet. And his mother just passed away in California. I can't remember.... Steinmetz, and Donnelsons (spelling?).

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That's good.

ANNA RYAN: [Kelly?]

KRISTINE PRENNACE: You mentioned Mr. Britt before. Now, is that John Britt, or was that his father?

ANNA RYAN: His father. He was the big shot over there, over all the lumber, there at Southwest.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So, boy, the Britts have been here for long time.

ANNA RYAN: Oh, they have. Yes, they've been here a long time.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, I wanted to get that straight in my own mind. Okay, let me see, did you ever know or see him on the street or anything; Zane Grey, when he used to come here?

ANNA RYAN: Well, he used to come here, and he had a little cottage. You know, when you come down the hill and you make the big long curve, and there used to be a cottage right on the right-hand side. They've torn all that down. I was awful sorry they tore it down, Zane Grey's little home there. Right there, he used to do all his writing in there when he was in Arizona. But I never seen the man or anything like that. That's all I DO know about Zane Grey, that when he'd come, he'd always do his writing in that little cottage there. I always felt bad when they tore it down and put a saloon there. And now I don't think the saloon's there anymore. I think they tore that down too.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, now that was just outside of town? I'm not quite sure - which street would that have been on?

ANNA RYAN: On the highway.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: On 66?

ANNA RYAN: No, Oak Creek.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, on 89, going towards....

ANNA RYAN: Oak Creek. You see, you go way down the hill, and then you make that curve there. And Mayflowers used to live in there someplace, too.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So he lived out a ways from town.

ANNA RYAN: He had the cutest little cottage there, and they tore it down. I felt bad to think they would do anything like that, you know. I always liked his books. Mister would go buy a birthday present, he'd come home with Zane Grey's book. (laughter)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: He knew what you liked to read! Did you know Lee Doyle at all?

ANNA RYAN: Yes, I did know Lee Doyle. Now, let's see, where did he live? I can get more to it if I know where he lived.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Didn't he live up where Babbitts' Thriftway was?

ANNA RYAN: I think there's where he lived. Where Babbitts' Thriftway was.

ELSIE PYLAND: A big red brick home there.

ANNA RYAN: He had a NICE big home there, Lee Doyle.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did you ever know what he did for a job?

ANNA RYAN: No, that I do not.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I know he used to take people out and show them around. He'd take Zane Grey around, I think, out in the woods. But I was wondering if he had any other job.

ELSIE PYLAND: He had some big cars that he took when the movie people would come here to make moving pictures. He'd take 'em out to locations.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, he did?

ELSIE PYLAND: Uh-huh.

ANNA RYAN: All I know is that Clifford Jones married one of the girls. That's Mrs. Jones that we're talking about. Her son married one of the girls, and then DID live in Salt Lake, but whether they're still there now or not, I don't know.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I was just wondering. Someone had told me that he took Zane Grey out, and I always think of the two of them together when I ask about them.

Now, this was a hard question [for you] to answer the other day. What type of social life was there in the community?

ANNA RYAN: Well, with Ruth Burris and I and the Lindemanns, always used to take us to K.C. [Knights of Columbus] dances, whenever they had dances. And there was just dinners and card parties, and that's about all that I can think of, that we had here. And of course we would go see our friends. People were just a little closer then than I think they are right now. Not only here - it's all over that way.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Right, it's just changed, not close. Now, you said the K.C. dances?

ANNA RYAN: K.C. dances.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Are those the initials for it?

ELSIE PYLAND: Knights of Columbus. It's the Knights of Columbus, the K.C.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Where was that? Do you remember where they were held?

ANNA RYAN: They tore down the old building that we used to dance in - it was a schoolhouse, and then had the hall. And of course, oh, once in a while when there's some other lodge that would have a dance that Mr. Lindemann would.... See Mister didn't dance, nor did Mr. Burris dance. But Ruth and I did! (laughter) And we were great friends, and Mrs. Lindemann and all....

[END TAPE 1, SIDE 1; BEGIN TAPE 1, SIDE 2]

ANNA RYAN: ... and under. And they always, all the different clubs would give 'em.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That must have been fun.

ANNA RYAN: It was. It was really a nice social thing. We used to go there and play cards, win the prize, see who could win the prize.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What kind of prize did they have?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, we had maybe - I'd be called on to give a prize. Mine usually was to make pillow cases, crochet lace and put that on, or embroider them. You know, we were called on to give prizes. And so that's how we got prizes. The first prize.... It started off at first prize and booby prize for men, and of course you were only called on for one. Then it got to be first and second and booby prize.

And St. Patrick's used to be a big doings here, on the church side. That was always a big party, luncheon and then a card party afterwards. And then the Knights of Columbus would have a big dance at night.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That was all through the church?

ANNA RYAN: All through the church.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That's interesting. Okay, now, the church that you went to was where? Up where it is now on Cherry, the Catholic church?

ANNA RYAN: No, it was across the street on Cherry. See, those buildings were torn down.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So it's like in the schoolyard of the Nativity Church.

ANNA RYAN: Uh-huh.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: And Father Vabre was....

ANNA RYAN: Father Vabre was the priest here then.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did you remember any of the other priests? Was Albouy here?

ANNA RYAN: Father Albouy, he passed away. It was Father Vabre, and then Father Vabre had a heart attack and passed away. Father Yost, Father Osley, was it? Yost. Yes, he was here. He was just here filling in. I don't know how many priests we had here that just filled in.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: There was a Yost?

ANNA RYAN: I don't remember any of the other names, ‘cuz they were here just such a short time. Then of course when Father Albouy - he'd come in from Winslow. He was here eighteen years, and NOW we lost him.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah. You mentioned Yost. Was that from the Yost family, do you know?

ANNA RYAN: No, it wasn't Yost. What was his name? Father Vorst. Then of course Father.... Oh, we had different priests in between Father [Vorst?], when he died, and Father McCarthy. We had different priests, but they didn't stay. They weren't stationed here, they were just filling in. But I don't remember their names.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did you have any special kind of responsibilities to perform in the church?

ANNA RYAN: Not any more than just president of the Altar Society.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did you serve as that?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, yes. That's about all I ever did.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What kind of things did that entail?

ANNA RYAN: Well, that would include bazaars and parties. And that would be all, just the parties and the dinners we'd have, something like that. We'd kind of connect up that way.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, would they have like a big bazaar every year?

ANNA RYAN: Yes, we used to have our bazaar. And I'll tell you, that was WORK. You had one year of THAT, that was plenty. And then of course someone else would come in. No, there's one year I had it for two years. Nobody did want it, and I took it for two years. But I'll tell you, that was work. I didn't mind it so much than the other, because the children were growing, they were going to school then, too; and I had a car. So it didn't make such a difference. So we worked hard to get that church paid for. So we did a lot of work.

And Mrs. George Babbitt, she was just like all the rest of us. We worked hard. You see, there was a church and a hall and everything - all was in one. So we used to have all our things down in the basement. And we didn't have anywhere to throw our garbage and "slop," as they called it. And Mrs. George Babbitt, she was just like any of the rest of us: she worked just as hard, and many a times her and I used to carry slop pails up the stairs. I know we had ten steps to go up. We worked HARD to get the church. And that church is built through - Father Albouy, he went to a church in France. You see, he came from France. He went to some church over there in France, and that's the church he built. That's how we got that church. He wanted to build that church just like he had it over there.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That's good to know about that. I don't know if the Catholic Church has christenings - do they?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, yes, they still do.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What were they like way back when? Did you have your boys christened in the church?

ANNA RYAN: Yes, we just had the christening, that was all. But of course back home, years ago (aside) when they had christenings - like myself - we always had a big party, big dinner. A big party, always had a big party. Neighbors all come in and bring in the godmother and the godfather, and oh boy! (chuckles) And now we just christened our little babies and that was all. And then we always have a godfather and mother for a child.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: It was very quiet, little?

ANNA RYAN: It was quiet, it was very quiet.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I'm sure you've probably attended some weddings there at the church, didn't you? Do you remember any?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, yes, we used to go to the weddings, have weddings here.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Were they fairly large? Did most everyone in town attend the weddings?

ANNA RYAN: I don't think so. It was just, I think, all invitations. 'Cause I know I never - I always liked when I got an invitation, but we didn't go when we didn't get it.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Even if you kind of knew the people, yeah.

ANNA RYAN: Uh-huh.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So they kept it close then, too. Now, the funerals, were they very large affairs?

ANNA RYAN: Yes, they were. They were always large.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: And you had the cemetery?

ANNA RYAN: Cemetery out there where it is right now, over by the university. I even have MY grave over there, too. (chuckles)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, most people do have that all set up. Okay, do you remember - this is always a hard one for people - do you remember any of the city government officials or anyone that served in city government? (long pause)

ANNA RYAN: How did you do?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I don't know that I asked.

ELSIE PYLAND: I don't believe she asked me that one. It was just as well, because I couldn't have told her.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Sometimes I forget, I change 'em [i.e., the interview questions] from time to time.

ANNA RYAN: Let's see now, it's hard to remember. (long pause) I remember a lot of the men, but I don't know if they were governors or not.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Any of the mayors? I think in a city it's hard to remember. Did you know Maggie Pulliam?

ANNA RYAN: Yes. Wasn't he something here?

ELSIE PYLAND: He was city magistrate, wasn't he, for a long time?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I think so. He was in the city somehow. I wasn't real sure.

ANNA RYAN: (aside about police car) I can't remember. Maybe if I ask Jimmy and Tom about it, and I can call you and tell you.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, okay. It's not real important. It was just I thought maybe if you....

ANNA RYAN: No, I just don't....

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Don't feel bad, because no one else can either. Okay, do you remember how Flagstaff fit into the rest of the state of Arizona? Was there much communication between Phoenix and Flagstaff? Or were you pretty much isolated up here?

ANNA RYAN: Well, I wouldn't.... Of course I couldn't tell you much about that, because we didn't have anything to do in Phoenix. We didn't go down there until the Burrises moved down there, and then we started going to Phoenix. And then of course it was just....

KRISTINE PRENNACE: A big city then.

ANNA RYAN: And it was just friendly, as far as I know. But before that, I wouldn't know.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I've been asking this: when you first came, did you have a car that you used?

ANNA RYAN: A car?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Uh-huh, in 1919.

ANNA RYAN: Uh-huh, but I didn't drive it. (laughter)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, people were still using horses, though, weren't they?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, yes, they were using horses. I'll tell you a joke - don't put THAT down.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, you don't want it on? (tape turned off and on)

ANNA RYAN: ... to drive a car.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, Mrs. Burris taught you how to get out there and drive. Did it take a very long time to learn?

ANNA RYAN: No, it didn't. And it was really nice. See, we had a LONG stretch up the railroad track, as we used to call it, and a big place to turn around, and then go back again down through the houses, a big place to turn around and go back. I learned to drive! (laughs) Of course I was mad, and when you're mad you can do things quicker than you can when you're not. (laughter)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Just bound and determined you're going to learn how to drive! Well, those big cars, ______________.

ANNA RYAN: Just a Model "T" Ford.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh, so it wasn't REAL big.

ANNA RYAN: No, just a Model "T" Ford. But after you learned to drive one of them, you could drive most anything.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, that's good! Okay, well, let me see, was World War I still going when you came? Or was that just over when you got here?

ANNA RYAN: I think that was. Yes, it was. (inaudible) Will didn't have to go, he wasn't drafted - nor was either one of my brothers.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did you drive out here?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, no! we came on a train.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So there weren't any soldiers coming home on the train?

ANNA RYAN: Not that I remember.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That was a long trip, wasn't it?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, it was! You see, we left Goodman Saturday night at seven o'clock, and of course we had to go to Chicago to change cars. And I think we got in here Tuesday. It was a long trip.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, did you eat on the train, or did you have to stop along the way?

ANNA RYAN: We stopped off and ate. They didn't feed you on the train. But I think there were SOME boys, three boys sitting right across from us. I think they were just coming home from the war, but they didn't have their uniforms on. But it seems to me that Will and them talked about that. And how they happened to really get acquainted is we had to stop and have lunch at one of those places, and there was the three boys. One of the boys went away, taking Mister's hat. So when we come out there, they were standing by the car, and this boy was just a pitching and a-snortin' because someone took his hat. And here Will come, and they got off before WE did. You see they were ththru eating before we were. And here Will was pitching because someone had taken HIS hat. And then he got up there and he seed his hat. He said, "You've got my hat." And this fellah, oh, did he ever feel.... (dissolves in laughter) He apologized. He'd taken the wrong hat, no one had taken his hat. HE'S the one that taked the wrong hat. (laughter)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, so you were here when Prohibition was in force?

ANNA RYAN: Yes, we were here then.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What kind of changes did it bring about the town, do you know? Did it close a lot of the bars on Front Street?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, they were closed when I came here. Flagstaff was dry. Of course Prohibition was on before I came here.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did they change those into something else then, instead of saloons? Did they use 'em for something else?

ANNA RYAN: I think they were open, but you know, on the Q.T.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh. (laughs)

ANNA RYAN: Just they're having soft drinks, but you could get whatever you wanted to.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: (laughs) Oh, so it wasn't quite as dry as they thought.

ANNA RYAN: Oh, no. Another thing I want to tell you, I was uptown with her one time when I met her husband. I was over at Nackard's, so I came up the street and her husband seen me and he walked - I was carrying packages to the car - so he was going to help me to the car. And as we were going by the saloon, he GAVE me a push, and I LOOKED at him and he said, "That fellah is throwing up over there, and if I hadn't pushed you, he'd have thrown up all over you." (laughter)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So it was pretty much the same way as it is now down there? (laughs) Well, it's nice to know it hasn't changed. Oh, dear!

ANNA RYAN: I couldn't figure out for a minute WHY he pushed me, because that isn't.... He was a real NICE man. I tell you, Joe was a good man.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Just the shock. Oh, dear.

ANNA RYAN: So I told her it isn't very often that we walked down that street.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah.

ANNA RYAN: I think the reason why I did then was because I had Mr. Pyland with me, other walked around.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, you were also here during the Depression then, right?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, yes.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did it have much affect on YOUR family?

ANNA RYAN: No, I don't think it did.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Your husband didn't get laid off of work or anything?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, no. The mill shut down, but he was watchman, so he had a job all the time.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: But it did lay a lot of the people off?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, yes, it did. The sawmill closed down, it did. There's Will and Steinmetz and Burnhelm - just some of those old-timers that they kept.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Were there any fires over at the mill while your husband was working there?

ANNA RYAN: No, there wasn't any fire then, but even after Mister had passed away, the sawmill had a fire over there, big fire.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I'll bet it did a lot of damage then. Was there a large fire department in town? Or how did they handle 'em?

ANNA RYAN: Well, it was a fire department, but it was small. What is in there now? I think the telephone - around where the telephone there, it was in there - office is now. It was in there. I don't know just what building, but it was in there.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Was there a police department here?

ANNA RYAN: Yes, we had a police department here. And I kind of think THAT was in there too.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, in the same building, uh-huh.

ANNA RYAN: See, Cooper was one of the policemen.

ELSIE PYLAND: Yes.

ANNA RYAN: Cooper, and who else? I remember him because we were friends - that's why - and Cooper used to work up at the mill too - I mean over AT the mill.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: But it wasn't a very large police department?

ANNA RYAN: No. No, no, no, no, it was just a small one.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did they have the county jail pretty much where it is now?

ANNA RYAN: I think the county jail was right where it is now, wasn't it?

ELSIE PYLAND: Uh-huh.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Smaller?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, it was small, yes.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, and World War II - I didn't ask you about that. Skipping around, I guess. Do you remember much about that and how it affected Flagstaff?

ANNA RYAN: All I know is that my two boys had to go. And things were quiet. I don't think there was much doing, was there? World War II? Was you out here then? Sure you were.

ELSIE PYLAND: Uh-huh.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, the Ordnance Depot, do you remember much about that being put in?

ANNA RYAN: Well, that was booming, I know that.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did it bring a lot of people to town?

ANNA RYAN: Yes, it did. How did that happen that I was out there? Who was living out there when I used to go out there?

ELSIE PYLAND: Tom and Jerry - Jerry had her baby out at the Ordnance hospital.

ANNA RYAN: But that was AFTER the war.

ELSIE PYLAND: Well, that's right.

ANNA RYAN: That was after the war, so I don't know much about it during the war. I know they had a lot of 'em out there. That's all I DO know. That's right; Tom was born in there, but that was AFTER the war, because he wasn't married - neither one of 'em was married before.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, do you remember any flooding in town?

ANNA RYAN: No, I don't know of any. We never had any flooding. We've had high water. Now, down on the south side, where Mrs. Cooney lived, where the bank is now on the south side there - she had a nice little cottage there, and she had three steps, and the water sometimes used to come up to the third step, but never in the house or never in any of the homes on that side. But that south side, where so many of the colored people are, that was ALWAYS underwater. But they fixed it, and I have never heard of any. You know, my house is built on River de Flag.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Here?

ANNA RYAN: Uh-huh, and part of Inman's house was too. So they have changed River de Flag.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh, changed its course.

ANNA RYAN: _________, 'cause it used to be downtown. You see now where - by the Orpheum, that grocery store or whatever store it is on the corner there, that used to be flooded. But they always had sandbags, it never got inside that I know of, where Midgley's used to be - Midgley's Drugstore.

ELSIE PYLAND: Uh-huh, grocery and delicatessen, wasn't it?

ANNA RYAN: Uh-huh. But other big floods or anything like that, we never had. I don't remember any of that here.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Do you remember much about any dry years when you had water shortages?

ANNA RYAN: Yes, I do! 'cause I had to buy a new coffee pot and a new tea kettle! (laughs) We did, we did have one, and then we got water from Winslow. And then of course that has so much of that alkali, is it, what they call it?,

ELSIE PYLAND: (I think so.)

ANNA RYAN: ... in it, and that just scums, you know, just hard, brick stuff. When we got our OWN water, well, we just threw our coffee pot and our tea kettle away. Yes, we did. We had that water. But I think that's the only time we DID have it. You were here then, wasn't you? (

ELSIE PYLAND: Uh-huh.) I think that's the only time we ever did have it, that I remember.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That it was THAT bad where they had to bring water in, yeah.

ANNA RYAN: Oh, lots of times they told us to be SAVING with water, but it never was that bad.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, what about some big snow years? Do you remember?

ANNA RYAN: We had some big snow years, we sure did. I often wish we had 'em now! (laughter) Yes, and another thing I'll tell you too, we had such big snows, the kids used to go riding on the sleigh with the car pulling 'em. Were you here then when those four or five kids were killed up here on the Four Corners by the college? Or Five Corners, wasn't it? One, two, three, four, five - FIVE up there. The college students and some college cars, you know, went to it and were pulling five of those kids. And another car didn't see the sled and just killed all five.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh!

ANNA RYAN: Of course I don't know if this should be told or not on this, but I'll tell it anyway, because it was terrible. Well, I come downtown to do my shopping and OH! when I got down to the corner there was BLOOD ALL OVER, all over, they never cleaned it up. So Mrs. Lindemann was one of the leaders of Flagstaff then. I go right over to Mrs. Lindemann, and I told her about it. Boy! did she hike for that telephone and call the city hall and bawled 'em out and everything. I said, "Just think of the mothers and the fathers, Nancy, coming and see all that blood there from their children. Isn't that awful?!" Well, she ___________, and then on my way home, it was cleaned up just as slick as if nothing ever happened. But oh! I thought that was terrible __________.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Uh-huh, such a catastrophe.

Now, you were here also, weren't you, during the flu epidemic? Or were you in Wisconsin?

ANNA RYAN: No, we wasn't out here during the flu epidemic. That was ___________. I was home because I was nursing, I remember. I was nursing my folks. Daddy and I and brother George didn't get it, but Goodman had it. And I never caught it, nor did either one of them catch it. And I come out here - how long ago is that now?

ELSIE PYLAND: The flu epidemic was in the fall and winter of 1918. It was, I think, practically over with by Christmas.

ANNA RYAN: So I've never taken the flu. And then I think it's about four years ago, five years ago, something like that, I [took] the flu!

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, yeah, there was a bad....

ANNA RYAN: And boy! I sure did have it, and I still have the effects of it.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, it can get you down.

ANNA RYAN: Yeah, I was back home, and they had it back there. All my dad did was dig graves. Couldn't get no one to dig the graves or anything. That's all he did, him and my brother George. They volunteered to dig graves, and George said, "______ can nurse _________. I can give 'em medicine __________." Having just the one doctor, and we HAD to help. All [of us had to help. Of course he wouldn't let Mother do it, and my two sisters had it. So he wouldn't let Mother get out and work and things. She was takin' care of herself and cooking for us. Then for the neighbors she did all that.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, boy. What kinds of things did you do when people had the flu? How did you take care of them?

ANNA RYAN: Oh, I tell ya', I guess we did a little of everything. Just a little of everything: give 'em the medicine the doctor told us, and keep 'em warm, and change beds and everything else. Just what you could expect from a real sick person. And then you could take care of this one, then you go to the next door, take care of that one.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Really just awful.

ANNA RYAN: And I was called home from Donnelson [phonetic spelling], Wisconsin. That's just about five miles from Goodman. And you know, they didn't have it up there?! Never HAD it up there.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Isn't that strange? Just never got the germs carried that far. Isn't that odd?

ANNA RYAN: And you know, Pearl McDaniel - of course we're still friends. I'll be eighty-three in October, and she'll be eighty-three in December, and they're always callin' us "The Gold Dust Twins." (laughter) She was in Green Gay, Wisconsin. And so her brother was running a box factory in Leon, Wisconsin, just about five miles, something like that. So he came down to hire some girls, so she and I went up there. And then, of course, I was called back home again when Mother and the kids got sick. And I was called back home, and so was SHE called home again. But we went back. We enjoyed working and making good money. With her brother running it and everything. So we went back, but summertime we came home. We worked all winter, but we came home in summertime.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Let me see, do you remember any of the Oriental families in town - any of the Chinese or....

ANNA RYAN: Pyland, help me out, I don't know.

ELSIE PYLAND: The June family was all that I think used to be here. They had the laundry there.

ANNA RYAN: Yes, the laundry, the June family. And his aunt, I know. There were the two June families. See, one was living on one corner, and another one was living on the other corner. And my husband always was a good friend of the one that lived on the opposite corner, because one day he was on his way home. They used to live in Lindemanns' house then. He heard some loud talking in there, so he went in there. Here was a white man in there, just fussing with her over - I don't remember just what it was. Anyhow, he took the man and threw him out. And [he could have laundry or anything down there?]. ______ laundry done _________. (laughing while talking obscures comment)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, ______ good friends _______.

ANNA RYAN: And then of course most of 'em have all passed away _________.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I think there was one boy. Okay, and we talked about the Mexican-American families....

[END TAPE 1, SIDE 2; BEGIN TAPE 2, SIDE 1]

KRISTINE PRENNACE: And now the black families, they didn't live over there in the same housing you lived in, did they?

ANNA RYAN: We didn't HAVE very many black families, did we, Pyland?

ELSIE PYLAND: A lot of black families come here with Mr. Cady, when he bought this mill.

ANNA RYAN: When Cadys come in, that's when the black families came in here.

ELSIE PYLAND: Of course they were such good workers for the sawmill. They really did that well.

ANNA RYAN: They did, oh yes. There was never any trouble or anything like that with 'em. Never had anything like that. No, they never really mixed with us either, did they? No. Just stayed by themselves. I know Mister never had any trouble with 'em. Never had any trouble. From grading, of course, he had the lumber yard too, then. And when Mr. Britt left, so he never had any trouble with 'em or anything like that. He used to tell a lot of stories from the South.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh, yeah.

ANNA RYAN: __________ just fine. And we STILL don't have any trouble with 'em, do we?

ELSIE PYLAND: Unt-uh.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, let me see, were there any Indian families in town?

ANNA RYAN: If there was, I don't remember. I don't think there was. Do you?

ELSIE PYLAND: I don't believe there was.

ANNA RYAN: I don't think there was. No, I think they all.... I know there's none of 'em worked for Mister or anything.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: _________________ came much later. Did you ever see them come into town to do shopping or anything like that, in a wagon?

ANNA RYAN: Well, I don't remember - only around Fourth of July. That's the only time that they used to come in.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What was the Fourth of July celebration like?

ANNA RYAN: Was you here this year?

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah.

ANNA RYAN: Well, then it was mostly wagons - wagons and horses - and a couple of dances or so, something like that. They’d take it more serious than they are now. Just about the same. Well, last year I don't think we even had any wagons, but this year I see they had a couple of 'em.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, so they used to be in the parade with their wagons?

ANNA RYAN: Uh-huh. Before, that was all wagons, and just horseback. That and walking. And all dressed up.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Did you have any big celebrations on the Fourth of July with the whole town?

ANNA RYAN: Well, if they did, we never went. I don't remember if they ever did, do you?

ELSIE PYLAND: The fireworks. After we came here, they had fireworks out at the City Park before they had the Indian dances, as I remember.

ANNA RYAN: I don't remember ever going there. We never were much of a hand to take the children out in a crowd somewhere like that - especially when we thought it was dangerous. We never did. So I don't know if they had any or not.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay. Well, do you remember, was there much tourism in Flagstaff?

ANNA RYAN: I don't think so, do you, Pyland?

ELSIE PYLAND: Right away after we came here.

ANNA RYAN: Right away there was, after you came?

ELSIE PYLAND: People were buying more cars, you know, and they were building new highways. The tourists were something new to me, and I think that's the reason I noticed everybody talking about "when the tourist season starts." That was something different to me.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh, the actual season when they would come. Well, let me see, did you travel around the area very much to see some of… like, Oak Creek Canyon or anything like that?

ANNA RYAN: Well, no, we didn't.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, your husband went hunting and things like that?

ANNA RYAN: Went hunting like that. And of course we went to Oak Creek. But not too much, because I didn't like the road then. (laughter) No, I've never been down Oak Creek until it was paved. I remember one time - was you with us when we went one Fourth of July?

ELSIE PYLAND: I don't think so.

ANNA RYAN: I think Lindemanns and us. We went down SOMEPLACE. I don't remember now where it was. But anyhow, they decided to come up Oak Creek, and I hung on - I was sittin' in the back, hung onto that door. My fingers were numb when I got home. And I NEVER would go down Oak Creek again! My son was over here at the school - both of 'em - and they gave a picnic at the end of school, and they asked the boys, all mothers that had cars and drive, and of course their hands went up. So poor Anna, she had to.... (dissolves in laughter) So Mister said, "Put it in low, Anna, and just go down the hill." So I did, and we stopped at Zane Grey's place right in there. It was a nice swimming pool in there, then. We always had our picnics there. And I drove up the same way: put it in low and just come all the way up.

Well, another time came and I went down, so I did. I went down in second. The third time I went down.... (laughs)

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Got braver every time!

ANNA RYAN: So I've been going down ever since.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, let me see. Was there anything out in East Flagstaff that you can remember?

ANNA RYAN: No, just a couple of houses, that was all. There used to be a sawmill out there. Now, who owned that sawmill?

ELSIE PYLAND: Mr. Greenlaw.

ANNA RYAN: Greenlaw, that's right. And just a few houses, and that's all. A boarding house. People used to run the boarding house there. I can't remember THEIR name. That was all, just a few company houses, that was all.

KRISTINE PRENNACE: It's really changed. Okay, I can't think of anything else specific to ask you. Can you think of any other good stories?

ANNA RYAN: No.

[END OF INTERVIEW]