FLAGSTAFF PUBLIC LIBRARY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Mary M. Sweitzer
Interview number NAU.OH.28.40
Transcription of taped interview with Mrs. Mary M. Sweitzer, who is a long time resident of Flagstaff. Interviewed December 16, 1975. IntervieweSUSAN ROGERS: Susan L. Rogers. Transcribed September 21, 1993. TranscribeSUSAN ROGERS: Janet Walter. A second transcription was done by Nancy Warden on February 2, 2000, because the back up copy was missing. Interview conducted by Susan L. Rogers on December 16, 1975.
Outline of Subjects Covered in Taped Interviews
- Tape 1, Side 1
- Born in 1908 in Ohio
- House first lived in near Federated Church
- Father came because of tuberculosis
- Commercial Hotel
- Stayed there while found a house to live in
- First day in Flagstaff
- Circus parage
- Shepherd (chef)
- Sandy Donahue
- Houses lived in
- Near Michelbach’s
- Visiting their ranch in the summer
- Getting milk from Neighbors milk cows
- Neighbors on N. Humphrey’s
- St. Anthony’s Catholic School
- Water barrels, wood stoves, electricity from 5pm to 7am
- Fires
- Brook’s store
- Volunteer fire department
- Daily chores as a child
- St. Anthony’s School
- Outstanding nuns as teachers
- Activities, exercises
- Library
- Above Bledsoe’s store
- Was on library board from 1950-63
- Downtown area
- No paved streets
- Bank Hotel, inside
- Weatherford Hotel
- Menus printed in Coconino Sun newspaper
- Elks charity ball on New Years Eve
- Mercy hospital
- Owned by mill
- Dr. Creighton
- Chinese restaurants
- Bright Angel restaurant, Coconino Chop House
- Fourth of July
- 1918, World War I celebration
- Tape 1, Side 2
- World War I, continued
- Flu epidemic
- Cemeteries
- First Catholic cemetery near Brannon Street
- Second cemetery, issues
- Christmas
- German Christmas celebrations at home
- Pow Wow
- Howard Pyle
- Narrated the rodeo
- World War II
- Block mother, Red Cross drives
- Husband on rationing board
- Rationed gasoline and tires
- Marriage, and son Paul
- Depression of 1930’s
- Worked for Flagstaff Light Co.
- Shopping at Babbitt’s store
- Solicitor who daily came to homes, asking for grocery list to be delivered in afternoon
- Prohibition of 1920’s
- Bootlegging liquor
- Judge and Mrs. Doe
- Saving on electric bills, story
- Judge J.E. Jones
- Stella Jones
- George Hochderffer
- Issues with his book about Flagstaff area
- Harry Nash killing salesman about 1921
- Big snowfalls
- Cattle died in 1948/49
- South side of Flagstaff
- Prochnow family
- Curt Smolen (artist)
- Oak Creek picnics
- Tape 2, Side 1
- Weatherford Road
- Horseback riding
- Switzer and Sweitzer, two different families
Transcription of taped interview with Mary M. Sweitzer, Flagstaff, Arizona. Interviewed December 16, 1975. IntervieweSUSAN ROGERMARY M. SWEITZESUSAN ROGERS: Susan L. Rogers. Transcribed September 21, 1993. TranscribeSUSAN ROGERMARY M. SWEITZESUSAN ROGERS: Janet Walter. A second transcription was done by Nancy Warden on February 2, 2000, because the back up copy was missing.
SUSAN ROGERS: This is an interview with Mrs. Mary M. Sweitzer, who is a long time resident of Flagstaff. She has been here since 1913. It's being conducted on December 16, 1975, at 15 E. Elm Avenue, which is her home. The interview is conducted by Susan L. Rogers, representing the Flagstaff City, Coconino County Public Library.
SUSAN ROGERS: Mrs. Sweitzer, when and where were you born?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I was born in Cincinnati, Hamilton County, Ohio, April 24, 1908, and lived there until I was five years old. My parents were Louise Rauleyhock Moorman and Frederick K. Moorman, and my name was Mary Louise Moorman. Then, in 1913, we came to Flagstaff. My brother, Henry F. Moorman, my mother and myself. My father had preceded us the previous year, in 1912. We came in October, and we stayed at Commercial Hotel until we found our home ready for us, which was two doors from the Federated Church on Aspen Avenue. We were a little house that set back up on kind of a hill with a big pine tree in front of it.
SUSAN ROGERS: Is that house still there?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No.
SUSAN ROGERS: No?
MARY M. SWEITZER: That house has been torn down because the Federated Church has expanded its facilities, and they have steady classrooms in that area now. See, they also tore down their (inaudible) which was next door to the church, not too long ago and -- but the house was torn down several years ago.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. You were telling me before we started the interview why your father had to come out here. Want to tell me a little bit more?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, well he was -- he was -- he found that he had tuberculosis, so the doctors advised him to go to the western country, suggesting either Silver City, New Mexico, or Flagstaff, Arizona. He chose Flagstaff, Arizona, because he had friends here, Henry Albers, who for many, many years ran the Flagstaff Steam Laundry and Joe Fromiller, were both Cincinnati men who had preceded him to Flagstaff for the very same reason, and that's one reason he came. He also knew the Verkamps from Cincinnati. He didn't know the Babbitts, but the Babbitts were married to the Verkamps and that's why another reason he came. He was a mortician by profession, but there was no work for him in Flagstaff, there was already a mortician here, as -- such as he was. So after he was here for awhile and began to feel better, he found work at the Commercial Hotel as the night man, and he worked as a night man for the Commercial Hotel and Charlie Prochnow, who was the owner, until he died in 1923. And he died from tuberculosis.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, can you describe your first day in Flagstaff?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, we came in early in the morning and we came from Phoenix. We had gone down to New Orleans to visit my mother's sister and so we took the -- the Southern Pacific and came into Phoenix and stayed there all day, and caught a night train out and came on up to Flagstaff by night. My father was so anxious to meet us that he went down as far as Ashfork and got on the train with us there. He rode the train down there and then got on the train with us and came up, and we got here early in the morning. I can't remember what time it was, and I can't remember the exact date, but we went to the Commercial Hotel and we -- and got our rooms, and they were having a circus in Flagstaff on that day. So we went -- sat out on the balcony of the Commercial Hotel and watched the circus parade go by. And that's my remembrance of our first day in Flagstaff.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. Uh huh. Can you describe the Commercial Hotel to me?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, it was very nice when we -- at least in my childish eyes, I thought it was beautiful. It had a --we-went into the lobby and then back a ways and then up this wide staircase. It had a landing, and then up a narrower stair to the second floor where our rooms were. The -- as I remember, at that time the desk was at the back end of the building, but later on they put it up in the front. It had a bar at that time on one side that was run by Sandy Donahue, and on the east side they had a restaurant which was -- they had a colored chef, his name was -- they called him Shep, and his name was Shepherd. There's a little book that's just been put out by the Historical Society that has a picture of some children on a big log, and one of these children is the daughter or granddaughter of this Shep, according to this little booklet.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: I don't know whether you've seen it or not.
SUSAN ROGERS: Is that the Land of Sunshine?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes.
SUSAN ROGERS: I've looked at it, not real recently.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: -- look at it again and see. Huh. And that's his daughter, huh?
MARY M. SWEITZER: That's either his daughter or his granddaughter.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. Uh huh. What do you remember about Sandy Donahue?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I don't remember a whole lot about him. He -- as I knew him, he was a -- he was an Irishman, and he liked his liquor, and ran the -- the bar and he was very generous, and I don't think he was ever(?) (TSUSAN ROGERS:Cline's book says he was married, p.139.) married. Someone said to me he was married, and I said I don't think so. As I remember him, he was a bachelor, and I can't remember what became of him. He owned property around town in addition to the Commercial Hotel. He had built the Commercial Hotel.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, um. Okay, then, how long did you live in the Commercial Hotel before you moved --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Oh, not too long, just a few days, --
SUSAN ROGERS: --oh--
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- he had this house lined up and ready for us to move into.
SUSAN ROGERS: And then now, did you live in that house all through your childhood (inaudible) church--
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, we lived in that house until the following spring, and then my mother was expecting a baby, which was due in -- in July, but it came early, and we moved before the baby came, down in the 700 block on Aspen, across the street from the Michelbach family, who were an old time family here. And they had -- when we came they had, I think they had eight children.
SUSAN ROGERS: Really?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh. There were -- I'm pretty sure there were eight.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did they become your childhood friends?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, yeah. We've been friends ever since and, of course, they were -- all of them, shall I name them?
SUSAN ROGERS: Sure.
MARY M. SWEITZER: There were -- there was Eva, Cavaness she is now. Joe is dead. Barbara Karstetter lives over here. Mary Sala, Pete Michelbach, Jr. Theresa Dubruler lives in Indiana. Cecilia lives, and I can't remember her last name, lives in Prescott. Minnie, and her name I don't know, lives on the coast. Rose, she lives in Winslow. Frank lives here, and he was born after we came here. They had two more children after we came here and lost one. And their parents' name were Veronica and Peter Michelbach, Sr.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, did they have a ranch in the mountains --
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- and they had ranch in the mountains.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah,that's what I was gonna ask.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, they had the ranch on the mountain, and they -- but they lived in town in the wintertime.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did you used to ever go out to that ranch?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, I did.
SUSAN ROGERS: What do you remember?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I was about, I think I must have been seven or eight years old before we went up to that ranch, and I went with a -- with the Michelbachs. They had gotten themselves a little car, and they took us up there to spend the day, and that was the first time I had ever been up there to the ranch.
SUSAN ROGERS: What was it like?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Beautiful. And of course as a child, you were looking for the chickens, and you were looking for the horse, and you were looking for the cow, but they always had a cow in -- in town.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did they?
MARY M. SWEITZER: And that was another thing we did. When -- there was no dairy. You -- you got your milk from whoever had a cow in the neighborhood, and when the cow came fresh, then you took your little pail and went -- and went and you got your milk. You either got the morning milk or you got the night milk. And you paid 'em for it.
SUSAN ROGERS: About how much, do you remember?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I can't remember, but we would go get it.
SUSAN ROGERS: So there was about a cow on every block, more or less?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I would say so, or every two blocks. I can remember then later on we -- we left that Aspen Street house, and we moved to 214 North Humphrey Street, and I was then about seven years old.
SUSAN ROGERS: Is that house still there?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, it is. It's -- it's the only one there, the Valley Bank Parking lot, and then there's this house sitting, and then the health food store is next to it.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And that house is still sitting there, and it was built, at that time it was brand new, and it was built for us by the pastor of Nativity Church, who- the Church had owned all that property, and he had this spot, so he built this five room house for us to move into. And we moved into it brand new, and we lived there until 1930. See, from 1916 till 1930.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. Who were some of your neighbors there? Did you-
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, we had neighbors on the corner where the health food store is now, were the Feelins, and they had been here quite a little while, and they were a family of two girls and three boys. But they were older than I. Then across the street were the Blacks, and some of them are down in - in Sedona yet, they were, and the Harts. And then down the other way were more Blacks and more Harts,and around the corner we had neighbors that, they're long time gone, a Mr. and Mrs. Albers, who were friends of my father's. He had been friends with them before we came here. And I think that was one reason we liked to move up to that area, because we were right close to -- to their -- to their fence.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, can you describe to me how many houses there were around that area at that time?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Quite a few.
SUSAN ROGERS: -- was it --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, pretty much like it is now, see.
SUSAN ROGERS: -- except where the schools is --
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- see, where the V -- American Legion is was a home --
SUSAN ROGERS: Oh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- and part of that American Legion building is still -- was part of one of the homes.
SUSAN ROGERS: Really?
MARY M. SWEITZER: And it was a brick home, uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, who lived there? (inaudible)
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, some of the Blacks.
SUSAN ROGERS: The Blacks?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh. See, there were quite a few of them around.
SUSAN ROGERS: What about Nativity School?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, it was -- it was over there, and of course, it was a building on -- on the front of the lot where the school ground is now, where the playground is now. I don't know whether you've ever seen any pictures of it or not.
SUSAN ROGERS: I think I have --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, you have. Well, that's where it was, and it wasn't called Nativity School then, it was called St. Anthony's School, for -- for the simple and very precise reason that the priest who had found the nuns who came to Flagstaff, which were the Loretto nuns, at the turn of the century in (inaudible), he promised St. Anthony that if he found nuns he'd name the school in honor of him. And that's why it carried that name until about in the fifties they changed it in order to coordinate it and make it be in line with a -- with a Nativity Church.
SUSAN ROGERS: Oh, uh huh, uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: So, what else?
SUSAN ROGERS: Um -- you were telling me about the cows which reminded me of the water system. Can you remember --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, now when we first came here, every -- that first couple years, nearly everybody had a little water barrel in the back yard that they kept in case of fire. Just so they'd have something, you know, to help put out fire. The water situation has always been bad in Flagstaff.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Another thing that might be interesting is, that when we first came here, we only had electricity from five o'clock in the evening until seven in the morning. They didn't run the -- the power plant, which was local, during the day. And it wasn't too long after we were here that they inaugurated around the clock electric service. I think we were here about maybe six months or a year when we began to have service around the clock. That meant we cooked with a -- with wood and coal stoves, see.
SUSAN ROGERS: You did, huh?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh. And we heated with wood and coal, and mostly with wood.
SUSAN ROGERS: Somebody had to be chopping wood all the time --
MARY M. SWEITZER: They had to be chopping wood, and they got a lot of their wood from -- which was the waste from the -- from the two mills that were running in town, and they both had box factories, and we used these, what they call the blocks.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: My mother hated that wood and coal stove. She was used to gas, and it would go out on her all the time, and she'd be cooking potatoes and the first thing you know, the potatoes wouldn't be cooking, the fire would be out. She hated it.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember any big fires as a child, any particular one?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Not as a small child, I don't remember any big ones. We did have some, though. But I was -- I can't really be specific --
SUSAN ROGERS: Or else later on? You remember any particular one?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, now down there below where the Arizona Daily Sun office, there was a place called Brooks Store, and that's where that auto -- that trailer court is now.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And that burned. And that burned around the time that we were living in that area after I was married, and I can't remember whether it was before Paul was born, or after. It was before I think, and it was a big, nasty, smelly, black fire. And it burned down.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, did they have a volunteer fire department at that time?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes. Volunteer fire department for years.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And they'd blow the whistle, and they had signals for each district. One whistle for one, and two for another, and three for another, and then they knew which way to go. And of course, the town was just divided four ways.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And the fire department did a pretty good job of putting fires out.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did they?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. As a child here, what were some of your daily chores that you had to do?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Daily chores?
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah.
MARY M. SWEITZER: I helped my mother in the house with the house work, and my brother helped bring in the wood and shovel the snow. We had chickens, we had rabbits.
SUSAN ROGERS: Oh, you did? You didn't have a cow though?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, we never had a cow.
SUSAN ROGERS: How about your schooling. Tell me a little about schools.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I went to St. Anthony's School for, well, for eight years. I started out there right away when I came to town, and I finished the eighth grade there in 1920 -- 22, and then I, they had high school at St. Anthony's for a year and then I went -- the first year that the Flagstaff High School, in the building that they tore down a few years ago, opened; I was there as a sophomore. I left there and went to Santa Fe, New Mexico to Loretto Academy, to boarding school for my junior and senior year of high school. So I didn't graduate from high school (inaudible).
SUSAN ROGERS: And then you came back to Flagstaff?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Then I came back to Flagstaff, and I went to what was then Arizona State Teacher's College and took commercial subjects and (inaudible) myself for office work, and went to work in 1927 at Flagstaff Electric Light Co., and I worked for them for eight years. When I married in 1935, I quit.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. Let's back track just a little bit. When you went to school at St. Anthony's, can you kind of describe what your classroom looked like, maybe some of your teacherMARY M. SWEITZER: did you have any teachers that stick out in your mind?
MARY M. SWEITZER:> Oh yes, there were some very outstanding nuns at that time, and I was -- had the good fortune to have one particular nun, Sister Mary B Ile(?) for four years. The school was fixed so that there three -- three classes in each room. Then when I was ready to go to the fourth grade or the fifth grade, they changed and put two classes in every room, so that I had this nun for the third, fourth, the fifth and the sixth grade, and she really was a wonderful teacher, and I think from her I got a really good background in elementary education.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. And what extracurricular activities did you have there?
MARY M. SWEITZER: At St. Anthony's?
SUSAN ROGERS: Right.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, we had choir, and I guess if you would want to call it activities in the classroom extracurricular, we did a lot of spelling contests and arithmetic contests, and all these things contributing to the children's ability to learn and to also show each other what they knew.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And then -- then we had plays, they would put us through plays, you know, and we had -- we never -- we always had the Pledge of Allegiance in the morning, the Pledge of Allegiance at noon, and we said our prayers, and we also were -- instilled an awful lot of patriotism. We knew all the patriotic songs, and we just loved to sing them.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, is this because of this particular school, or do you think it was just the era in America at that time?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I think it was the era in America at that time. Something that we need to get back.
SUSAN ROGERS: I think so. I think you're right.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah.
SUSAN ROGERS: What kind of discipline did they have there?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Very good.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did you feel it was too strict --
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, -- I -- I thought --
SUSAN ROGERS: Or just about -- was kind of loving discipline?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, it was loving discipline, but it was firm.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: That would be the way to put it.
SUSAN ROGERS: Alright. Alright. Did you used to do anything with the public school kids?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, I didn't do too much with them. I had one very dear friend, and she's still my friend. She lived around the corner from me, and her name was Edith Foster, and she went to public school, and I went to the Catholic school, but we were friends, and we'd -- we'd play together in the summer time, and we'd talk over the fence and compare notes. But she left here when she finished the eighth grade and went to Prescott to live. She lives in Prescott now, and her name is Edith Scoley, and she's had a very interesting life.
SUSAN ROGERS: Hum - I'll have to remember that. Let's see. Oh, I was going to ask you what kind of things you did do in the summer time.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Oh, I read.
SUSAN ROGERS: You did, huh?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I had a dear older friend who introduced me to the Flagstaff Public Library, which was upstairs in what is known as the Spencer Building now.
SUSAN ROGERS: Insurance --
MARY M. SWEITZER: It started out as one room -- well, that long building where Bledsoe's and Baker's Books and Gifts, up those stairs, and it started out as one room, went to two rooms, and three rooms before it moved to the building that they tore down. And this older girl took me up and got me a library card, and I read as fast as I could read all summer long. That was the thing that I did the most. Of course, I played baseball and things with my brother and that sort of thing. But mostly I played -- I read.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember the librarians there at all?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, yes and no. The only one that I can remember that I can get a name to is Mrs. Devaney, and -- Lucina DeVaney, and she was librarian for a long time. There were some who preceded her and then some who came after her. But then after they moved the library to the Women's Club Building, for many, many years, Abby Raudebaugh was there. And I also was on the Library Board. Then after I was married, I was on the library board from about 1950 -- about 1950 to about 1963, or '64.
SUSAN ROGERS: Well, then can you tell me- we'll move up to the present- a little bit about the development of the library here?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I think Flagstaff has always had a very nice library considering that it was a small community. And, of course, I'm a little bit partial because I was on that Board for so long and tried to help to see that it got -- that it advanced, and we had a very small budgets, and we had to watch every penny. In the winter time nearly all our money went to heat the building, you know.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: But, and I don't go to the library very often any more, so I can't compare this with the other, only that I knew -- know that things are adequate when I go in and look at it, I can see.
SUSAN ROGERS: Back when the library was in the Spencer Building, did they used to have any special children's programs or functions?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, they didn't. They just had a children's corner. Say the -- room that the library was in first was maybe the size of these two rooms together.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And there was a children's corner with the children's books and then there was reference books and then the -- then the fiction, and that sort of thing, and a place for the -- for the desk.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did the librarians seem like the old stereo type --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, pretty much, pretty much, you -- you kept quiet, and you learned to -- to behave yourself, and do what -- you know.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did it seem crowded, did it seem like quite a few people used it?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, not too many, and that was a pretty big flight of stairs to go up, but it didn't bother me a bit. I'd get the book and run over and sit on the courthouse lawn lots of times and read half of it before I'd go home. And I loved it.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. Let's see. Can you describe the downtown area a little bit for me, since you used to go down there to the library?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, you know, of course first, no paved streets, so -- so when it rained, it was pretty muddy. They put planks down and another thing that was interesting, you see, most of the sidewalks were wooden sidewalks, plank sidewalks when we came here. I don't know whether anyone else has told you that or not. They finally pulled the last wooden sidewalk out from in front of the Dolan house, and I think they put cement down. It was wood not too long ago, because I had some friends come from California who had lived here, and the said, "Any wooden sidewalks left?" And I said, "One." And we went andtook a look But I think it's gone.
SUSAN ROGERS: I think it is too, now.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And then they began - then they first paved downtown, you know - just the downtown area. And when they first paved, then they used to have street dances. Dance on the street --
SUSAN ROGERS: Did you go to these then?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, I was too young, really --
SUSAN ROGERS: You were, huh?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- when they first started them, see.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And the sidewalk in front of the Commercial Hotel and all along that street when we came here was brick or cobblestone -- brick, see, and then they tore it out. But it was a brick sidewalk to start with. And they called it Front Street.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah, I've heard that.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, you've heard that. And then it went to Railroad Avenue, from Railroad Avenue to Santa Fe.
SUSAN ROGERS: And that's where it stayed.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. Um - what do you remember about the Bank Hotel?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I don't remember too much about that. It was down the street, and I just -- just -- until later.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And then later on when Mamie McMillan Fleming lived in it and ran it herself, see, she had gotten it from her mother. We used to go there for parties upstairs, and that's when I got to know it. And, of course, that had that pretty stair -- you've been in that, haven't you?
SUSAN ROGERS: Since it's been --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Since it's been refixed upstairs.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. And, what did it look like that then? I don't think it looks the same.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, it was pretty -- that stairway is still pretty much the same.
SUSAN ROGERS: Is it?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah. Uh huh. And that kind of the lobby is still the same, and they used that for their sitting room.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did they?
MARY M. SWEITZER: There's a picture of that in that little LAND OF SUNSHINE, too.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah. It looks very lavish.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, it was, with those fancy draped windows and that sort of thing.
SUSAN ROGERS: What was the main color? Was it red?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I can't remember.
SUSAN ROGERS: You don't remember?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh uh (no).
SUSAN ROGERS: And what about the Weatherford?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, it was nice too. And it also had a nice restaurant, right where the restaurant still is. Some of those old Arizona Coconino Suns (newspaper) used to print the menus. I don't know whether you've ever gone through any of those old ones or not.
SUSAN ROGERS: Some of the old --
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- print the menus for New Years Day, and oh my, they were elaborate.
SUSAN ROGERS: So, was there a great big celebration on New Years Day then at the hotel?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I don't think so, no, not in those early days. If it was, I wasn't aware of it, see. I was too small for that.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. But later on, do you remember --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, later on we used to go to all the Elks, what they call the Elks Charity Ball on New Years Eve, and we'd have such a good time. And that is now where the library is. That was where we danced.
SUSAN ROGERS: Can you describe one of those parties to me? The whole evening --
MARY M. SWEITZER: You really want me --
SUSAN ROGERS: Sure, I'd love to.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, everybody dressed beautifully, you know, at least in long dresses, and the men were all dressed up in their best suits, and they'd have a good orchestra, and they'd have a punch bowl in the other part of the building, and everybody danced and just had a real good time.
SUSAN ROGERS: And how late did you dance till?
MARY M. SWEITZER: On, we'll dance till -- till the new year came in, till about one o'clock. And then we generally went to somebody's home and had breakfast. Of course, that was after I was in my twenties.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And we did have a good time.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did they used to ever have all night dancing parties at any of the ranches around here?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Not that I know of.
SUSAN ROGERS: You didn't go --
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- See, they might have, but I -- I didn't know about it.
SUSAN ROGERS: What do you remember about some of the early hospitals?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, the early hospital up was there, that's the one that's boarded up, up there from the Dolan house. It was called the Mercy Hospital.
SUSAN ROGERS: The one that's across the street?
MARY M. SWEITZER:> Yeah, well, it's across -- right, the Dolan house is here, and it's up across the street this was. It's boarded up. That was the Mercy Hospital. It was mill owned and operated--
SUSAN ROGERS: It was, huh?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- because of accidents from the mill, that's the way it got its start.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: But, then later on, it was used by the different doctors, until they built this one up here, and then Dr. Creighton also had one of his own, right downtown across from the telephone building, for awhile. He took a couple of houses and put them together and ran the hospital --
SUSAN ROGERS: I know. Who did that?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Creighton, Carrol Creighton.
SUSAN ROGERS: And he had his own hospital?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, for awhile --
SUSAN ROGERS: I hadn't heard about --
MARY M. SWEITZER: You hadn't heard about that --
SUSAN ROGERS: Tell me a little bit about that, how he got it --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I don't know just how he got it, but they felt the need for another one, and so they -- he just -- I think he put two houses together, or he used one house because -- and it was small. It wasn't a big hospital, maybe it could take six patients, or something like that. But quite a few people used it, and then -- then later on they used Mercy Hospital and called it Doctor's Hospital, and they had it, and they had Flagstaff Hospital.
SUSAN ROGERS: They had both of them at the same time?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember when that Mercy Hospital closed?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I can't remember just when it closed. And then it was turned into an apartment. There were a couple of apartments and people lived in it for awhile, but it's been boarded up --
SUSAN ROGERS: For quite a while --
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- quite a long time, yeah.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah. Um, let's see. What do you remember about all the saloons on Front Street? Remember anything special about any of the saloon keepers --
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, I can't remember any. I tell you what was on, on Front Street in addition to those saloons were two Chinese restaurants. Whether anybody's mentioned those to you or not--
SUSAN ROGERS: The ones that are still basically there, I mean the Grand Canyon and that Hong King --
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, no, no. These were two. One was -- one was there about where that real estate office is, NARICO, isn't that?
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh - right next --
MARY M. SWEITZER: --and, and another one was down this other way. One was called the Bright Angel Restaurant, and one was called Coconino Chop House.
SUSAN ROGERS: And they were Chinese?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes.
SUSAN ROGERS: Cuz, I've seen a picture of that Bright Angel --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, Bright Angel Restaurant and the Coconino Chop House.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, did your family used to go eat there?
MARY M. SWEITZER: My father used to eat there. See, he worked at night, so he'd go to the chinamen's before he'd close and have his mid-day meal, so to speak.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember who owned them?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, but these chinamen ran it. You know, there were an awful lot of Chinese around here at that time. They had been brought in to work on the railroads and things like that, and then they established their own businesses. And they were very, very thrifty. They generally lived down in the basement or in a back room in a little room probably as big as our bathrooms are today.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did any of them go to school with you then?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, no --
SUSAN ROGERS: They all went to the public --
MARY M. SWEITZER: They went to public schools.
SUSAN ROGERS: How about any blacks? Do you remember, were there a lot of blacks around or --?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Not too many, not too many --
SUSAN ROGERS: How about --
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- like I say, that chef was a black.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah. Now what about the Indians? Do you remember them coming into town?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, they'd come to town, but they didn't -- they didn't stay, and they'd come -- they nearly always came for the Fourth of July celebration. We always had a Fourth of July celebration.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you want to tell me about that? What you remember?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, and then, they had these celebrations over on the south side of town where they had what they called the racetrack, and so forth. And it was about where the end of Beaver Street down there, oh maybe, just a little bit beyond the South Beaver Street School, in there some where.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And, they had a racetrack and a grandstand, and they'd have- maybe they'd have a baseball game between two town teams, or a town team from Williams and a town team here. And then they'd have a little rodeo sometimes, and then they'd have the Indians. And one time I can remember, a couple of times, they had Indian races where they ran ten miles, you know around and around the track. And everybody marveled at these Indians coming in, and they were very wonderful runners.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did the whole town more or less go out to these celebrations?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Quite a lot, yeah. Of course we had to walk. But we'd walk and some of them would be dressed up and they'd have American flags on them. I can remember some of them had red (inaudible) they'd take along.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did the school children ever do anything special?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I can't remember. The only time I can remember the school children doing anything was in 1918, when World War II (sic) was over. And of course the schools closed, and we had a big parade, and --
END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, BEGIN TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, do you want to tell me about that flag again?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Oh, about the 1918 --
SUSAN ROGERS: Right.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- celebration of the Armistice. Well, the flag was a great big flag, at least it seemed that way, and they had the school children carrying it, holding onto it and carrying it. And they had somebody dressed like Uncle Sam. And they had a hole in the middle of it, you could stand in the middle of it and walk- And then they had bands, and they celebrated all day in spite of the fact that we were having the flu epidemic real bad here.
SUSAN ROGERS: That's what I was going to ask you about.
MARY M. SWEITZER: We were having it real, real bad here at that time, and the people were just really sick, and a lot of them died, but they celebrated anyway. But they hadn't been gathering in groups cuz they didn't want to spread it from one to another.
SUSAN ROGERS: Would um -- did any of your friends or family get very sick?
MARY M. SWEITZER: We didn't get it that year, but we got it the next year. We, we happened to escape it. I think my mother had it, I think she, she had it. But the rest of us waited until -- my brother and I waited to the next year, and we (were) really sick, we were --
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember- like, how many people died?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I don't remember, only that I know that they ran out of coffins and things like that, and they had to set up and make special coffins, and there were -- the, the doctors and, and some of the people just worked constantly, all the time, taking care of people.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: But we, we, we were lucky, we escaped. My father escaped it which was a good thing because he had tuberculosis.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, um, that brings me up with the cemeteries. How, can you tell me if they've moved around, or -?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, yes and no. That's one of my sore spots, of course. The Catholic Cemetery, I haven't liked what they've done out there in the last few years. But, originally I think that there was a Catholic Cemetery over there around Brannen Street, where that first Catholic Church was. Then they got this other Catholic Cemetery, and they moved most of the bodies that were there, that they could get in touch with the people, they moved them to new Catholic Cemetery. The rest of them and this was told to me by an old timer, they finally just leveled it off and left what was there and built on it.
SUSAN ROGERS: So there's a house on top of it right now?
MARY M. SWEITZER: So there's -- I don't know what's on top of it now.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember Brannen Street and what area -- do you remember exactly where it was?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Not -- no not exactly, because, see, it was already gone when we came here --
SUSAN ROGERS: Oh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- because, you see, we had this younger brother, and he only lived to be two and a half. So he was buried in this other cemetery. So I was well acquainted with that Catholic Cemetery, and I wasn't acquainted with the citizens in the Masonic -- at that cemetery until later.
SUSAN ROGERS: So then they moved it to this other Catholic Cemetery?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes. Uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: And how long did -- was it there, or is that the new one now?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- that's the one that's there now, that's the one I- that I, I haven't liked what has been done over there.
SUSAN ROGERS: What's been done with it, that you haven't --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I guess it's been fifteen years ago. A priest just went in and decided he was gonna make a forest lawn out of it and leveled everything with a bull dozer.
SUSAN ROGERS: You mean it didn't used to be leveled?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, no, but then he took, he took the markers and everything else out. So, I just as soon not (inaudible) on tape because I've had a big go around about with that for years, as far as I'm concerned.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: You know. I thought it was unkind and unfair, and not right. I think burial plots are a part of a community and most burial -- most communities can point with pride to their burial plots as such far as history books.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: For dates.
SUSAN ROGERS: Exactly.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And that's my way of looking at a cemetery. If you can say, well this is a community and this and that, but all you've got to do is go look at the cemetery and then you'll know how long the community's been here.
SUSAN ROGERS: Sure.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Because no matter what kind of markers are used, there's going to be a few that are enduring and will have dates on them.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh, right. Okay. Let's see, was Christmas celebrated in any special way?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No --
SUSAN ROGERS: -- how about Christmas in your own home?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Oh, in our own home?
SUSAN ROGERS: Right.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Oh, yes, of course, with a German background, which we had, it was, it was a big event. And we always had our Christmas -- our toys, as we called them on Christmas Eve, and we would get all ready, and we'd be eating supper, and we'd -- my parents, when we were young enough to believe in Santa Claus, had this friend who would come and stamp on the front porch and make a lot of noise and then go home, and then we thought Santa Claus had been there. And then we'd go in into the front part of the house and there would be our presents, and we did that. And we first had, we used to light candles on the tree, too.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did you?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, uh huh. We'd have candles when we'd open our packages. And my father would watch so they wouldn't burn, you know, burn the tree, and put them out when they'd get (inaudible).
SUSAN ROGERS: Where did you get your tree?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Oh, I can't remember that really. I think we'd bought it from somebody, or somebody would bring it in --
SUSAN ROGERS: You bought it, you didn't go out and get it?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- somebody would bring it in from their ranch, or something like that.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: That's the way we got our trees. I can remember the big tree at the house that we lived in first. I thought it was so beautiful, and I thought surely we'd decorate that for Christmas, see five years old. And it reached -- it was big, mature pine tree. An old ponderosa that have been there for one hundred fifty or two hundred years. But I just loved it.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. What do you remember about the early Pow Wows?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, the early Pow Wows started out more or less as Pioneer Days, or something, first. And first we would -- we wore old fashion dresses to celebrate in. And then later, we went to the squaw skirts and the blouses and everybody dressed. And the Pow Wow, if you've been here for awhile --
SUSAN ROGERS: Yes.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, then you know. It evolved into this thing gradually. And it finally became so well known, and I think Howard Pyle helped to make it well known. He was such a good narrator, and he would narrate both the rodeo in the afternoon and the dances at night. And he -- his language was so well chosen, and he had such a well modulated good voice, that people half the time went to hear Howard narrate the dances, at night especially. I was never one that was very crazy about the rodeo, but I never missed the Pow Wow dances until about the last three or four years.
SUSAN ROGERS: And were they pretty much the same as they are now?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Pretty much, uh huh. They got a little more elaborate and a little fancier, and the indians got a little smarter.
SUSAN ROGERS: Right. Okay, let's see. What about World War II? What do you remember about- how did it effect Flagstaff, or you?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, it -- I can remember that we were, are all, of course, rationed and had our ration books, and I was a block mother, and I collected magazines, and I collected grease, and I collected- you know, tin cans, and all that sort of thing that they were salvaging. And, I also helped with all the Red Cross drives at that time, and Paul was small, and I'd have to take him along with me when I'd do it. And then if it was cold weather, I'd have to come home and stoke the cook stove in the back if I was cooking something, and then go out again and do these things. But -- and my husband was on the ration board, and he was in charge of the rationing of tires. And we were bothered constantly with people wanting tires in the middle of the night. And it got so we'd - if the doorbell rang or somebody would be pounding on the door, we knew what it was. It was somebody wanting some tires, and they'd offer my husband all kinds of things if he'd just give them an order so they could get a couple of tires, so they could go on. Or, or enough extra gas. You see, gasoline was rationed, too. And he was a very conscientious person. He'd say, well, if you're a real hardship case, you'll just have to wait till in the morning till I can get to the office -- to the ration office and take care of it. I can't take care of it in the middle of the night. And he told me that they'd come in there, and they'd even offer their commendation medals and that sort of thing if he'd just please give them tires. Sometimes he did and sometimes he didn't.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Sometimes there weren't any available, you know.
SUSAN ROGERS: There really wasn't --
MARY M. SWEITZER: And they went out in the woods, and they gathered up all the old tires and brought them into town, and I don't know what they did with them. I think they sent them somewhere in Columbus and used them again.
SUSAN ROGERS: Tell me a little bit about your husband. How did you meet him, when did you meet --?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I met him in 1930 at the Grand Canyon. I went up there with another boyfriend, and this other man knew him. And they -- we were to meet up there. He was coming, my husband was coming from Kingman; he was living in Kingman with a girlfriend. And I met him up there. Well then, we didn't marry until '35. And I went with him (inaudible) where he lived in Kingman, and then he went to California, and then he came back and went to Winslow. And he worked for both Ralph Cake in Winslow and the other Chevrolet dealer in Holbrook, as the bookkeeper. He was, was an accountant. And then we came to Flagstaff, and he went to work for -- to the Motor Company as an accountant. He worked for them for several years, and then he went to work for Riordan's Incorporated as their manager. It was a firm of -- investment firm, insurance firm. And he had -- his office was (inaudible) in the Commercial Hotel, so there was my next connection with the Commercial Hotel. And then my brother owned the Northern Arizona taxi service. After he came out of the service in 1945, he was -- he was a Marine, and then he bought the Taxi company, and his taxi scale was in -- was in the Hotel, too. So, when the hotel burned, I really --
SUSAN ROGERS: I bet, there was a lot of memories --
MARY M. SWEITZER: You know, there were a lot of memories there for me. Paul came in to me, I was in the beauty parlor and said, "Mother, when was it built and who built it?" And I told him. And then when we got home that night, he said, when I heard it was burned, the first thing I thought of was you.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, you want to tell me about your children, then?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I just had Paul. Do you know him?
SUSAN ROGERS: Yes, Paul Sweitzer from the Sun.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, just Paul. He was born in 1936, here in Flagstaff at the Hospital, and --
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, this is about the year the hospital was new, right?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, it was new the year -- yeah, he, he was born in November and the Hospital was opened the first of the year, so it was brand new. And it was just the tiny building that they tore down.
SUSAN ROGERS: Let's see. How about the Depression? How did it affect Flagstaff and you?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, it was pretty bad, and people lost their jobs and everybody took cuts in salary. But, we held in, and I don't think the smaller communities knew, really, what the Depression was like in the big cities, where they had those soup lines and those bread lines. I don't think that there was any comparison between that and a smaller community. Of course, I think the Depression hung on longer in the smaller communities than it did in the bigger ones, once it hit. They didn't recover as quickly.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: You know --
SUSAN ROGERS: But you said --
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- but I know, and I was working, see, for the Flagstaff Electric Light Company at the time, and my salary was one hundred dollars a month. So, when they began -- they belonged to a -- to a parent company out on St. Louis at the time,. and this parent company handled it this way. They had the top echelon of the employees take a ten per cent cut, but they didn't get the lower ones, my group, in. Then they came along with another ten percent cut, and finally they got down -- and each time the echelon that they cut also took another ten percent cut. By the time they got to us and our ten per cent cut taken, the top echelon had had a thirty percent cut in pay, see.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh, right.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And so then my salary went from on hundred dollars a month to ninety.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, was that considered a decent salary?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, that was considered a pretty good salary --
SUSAN ROGERS: I think it would be.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- and of course, I worked -- I worked six days a week, eight hours a day, every week, see.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now what did you do? Were you a secretary?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I was -- well that's another thing. People say well what did you do? Well, I was the cashier --
SUSAN ROGERS: You did everything, huh?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I did everything. I was the cashier. I was the stenographer. I was the secretary. I bagged the money. I took care of the mail. I also helped with the billing; I helped when we sorted commuter sheets to go out to read; I sort commuter sheets when we'd bring them back in to bill. And, all -- I just did everything.
SUSAN ROGERS: How big of a company was this, then? How many employees. Do you have some idea?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, we had like -- we had Mr. Green who was the manager, an auditor, a bookkeeper, a courtesy agent and myself in the office. That would be five. And then they had so many out on the line, and then, of course, they had their own power plant over there by the -- where the old Goodwill was, across the street, that old building. And they had their own federal(?) engineer, their top engineer and engineer for the three different -- see they had three eight hour shifts that they ran, and they'd have an engineer and a fireman. And see, they fired boilers with what they called hog waste from the mills. That was old slabs and sawdust and that sort of thing. And then finally, they went to oil. But that's -- that's the way they ran the -- the turbines, see, they had their own (inaudible). Then they tied in- when I worked for the power company, then the -- then the changes began to come. They tied in to Winslow, and they tied in to Holbrook, and they had -- they had a power company with a turbine in Winslow, a big one or two and some in Holbrook, and then they -- if they'd have trouble they could always could always turn over to the other one, see. And sometimes they'd carry it alone and sometimes they wouldn't. But that was the beginning of this big, as we know, Arizona Public Service Company, today. It was an interesting thing to watch grow, too, and to learn about.
SUSAN ROGERS: In those early days, where did you do most of your shopping?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Babbitts'.
SUSAN ROGERS: Babbitts'?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I'll go back to when we first came here. And this is interesting and maybe no one's told you this. Babbitts' would send out what they called a solicitor to the homes in the morning. It was a man who also delivered the groceries in the afternoon. And he would take your order. Everybody didn't have a phone and couldn't call him. And he'd come around and tell my mother what, what there was.
SUSAN ROGERS: Really?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- in the way of fresh vegetables, and she'd order, and she'd say, well, what kind of meats do you have, and I was listening one time, and he was saying beef, pork and sometimes -- mutton, and sometimes lamb and veal. He said the same thing over and over and over again. I was telling somebody that recently, and they said, "really", and I said, "Yeah, they did." They came around, and then for years, of course, they delivered, but they don't deliver anymore, but they used to deliver. I don't know whether anyone's told you that before.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. That's real interesting. And so they usually just had about the same thing every single time, too?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, uh huh. And then they'd -- they'd have --in the wintertime, of course- vegetables, you didn't have any. Potatoes and beans, dried beans, and turnips, and carrots and some cabbage if it didn't dry up. And you always -- we used to -- my father and mother used to make sauerkraut and put it down in crocks and we'd have sauerkraut.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did you use to have a cellar?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, no cellars --
SUSAN ROGERS: You didn't --
MARY M. SWEITZER: --there were very few cellars in Flagstaff.
SUSAN ROGERS: -- there weren't.
MARY M. SWEITZER: No basements. I don't know why. My mother missed it terribly because she was used to basements, and we didn't have them
SUSAN ROGERS: I wonder why they didn't have --
MARY M. SWEITZER: I don't know. Well, they used to say they -- they-- the drainage wasn't good, and they couldn't get them so that they would not -- they would -- the water would come through when it would rain. The ground, I guess.
SUSAN ROGERS: Something with the rock formation.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, do you remember the Prohibition at all?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah.
SUSAN ROGERS: What do you remember?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I can remember that. Of course, Arizona went dry, you know, before the nation did.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And I can remember that it was- of course, we were a family, and they -- but they like their beer and that sort of thing. So they stocked up and had it. But, of course, it didn't last forever. And then, of course, during the Prohibition, we had all these different people that were bootlegging and -- with their stills here, and their stills there. Every once in a while I get amused at the paper, they'll -- they'll report they found another big still fifty years ago at such and such a place. But, and then there were different places in town, particularly on the south side of town, where you could go and get your booze for five dollars a pint.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, did these people make it in their houses, you mean --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, sometimes they did, or they brought it in.
SUSAN ROGERS: From somewhere in the woods?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, uh huh. From somewhere in the woods, cuz they'd have the stills going.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did you know any of these people, I mean did your family know?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, some of them.
SUSAN ROGERS: So these were respectable people?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, uh huh, some of them were very respectable. They're still around.
SUSAN ROGERS: You're not going to give any names, huh?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, I'm not gonna do that.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember Judge Doe?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, I do. He lived right over here.
SUSAN ROGERS: He lived in the house I live in.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Is that where you live?
SUSAN ROGERS: That's me, yeah.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well that -- yes, I knew him. He was a very pompous gentleman and very nice looking, very much the part of a judge, and his wife was quite nice, too. And Mr. Harrington used to tell a story about him. Of course, everybody was always watching their electric bills back in those early days. And, whether this was true or not, but George Harrington, he told me one time, you know, Mrs. Doe went away on a vacation, he said, so she just fixed it. She took all her light bulbs out and opened -- they just had those little -- like these things, little switches, you know. And she opened it, and she said I'll just fix the light company, it can just all run out on the floor. (TSUSAN ROGERS: Mary Draine tells a similar story in her interview).
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. That's a good one. What other personalities can you remember back then? Do you remember J.A. Vail?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No.
SUSAN ROGERS: You don't remember him at all?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember any other important people, judges or sheriffs, or --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I knew an awful lot of those kind of people, but I don't -- can't remember all their names. There was a judge, Judge Jones.
SUSAN ROGERS: J.O. (sic--should be "JE")
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah.
SUSAN ROGERS: J.O. Jones (sic). What do you remember --
MARY M. SWEITZER: They lived down there below the Federated Church on Aspen, on Aspen and Park, down on that side. There's two houses there together that -- that they've made apartments out of --
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- out of cream colored brick.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, Judge Jones lived in one and his daughter lived in the other. And he had a daughter that worked for him, whose name was Stella(?). She was his secretary.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you know where she is now?
MARY M. SWEITZER: She -- she's still living.
SUSAN ROGERS: Really?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah. She was here for one of the Pioneer celebrations one year.
SUSAN ROGERS: Stella Jones?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh (inaudible)
SUSAN ROGERS: No, I have to write that down. Do you know where she lives now?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, I don't know, but I might be able to find
SUSAN ROGERS: Maybe the Pioneer Society knows, too.
MARY M. SWEITZER: They might know, uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. And what was he like?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, he was a nice little man, too. Little fellow, as I remember.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember the Hochderffers?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, uh huh. I remember them. They live down -- they had a house down there on Cherry.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, that was an apartment building front, but it's been torn down, right?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, uh huh, in that area. And, he was a quite a pompous, important sort of a person, at least he thought he was. I shouldn't even say that. Did you ever read his book?
SUSAN ROGERS: Yes. Uh huh. It's a pretty good book on him --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes, uh huh, it's pretty good. It's got some wild tales in it though, I think.
SUSAN ROGERS: You don't think they were all quite true?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, I don't think so. I think there was some imagination used there, but I shouldn't even say that.
SUSAN ROGERS: Well, this is what we need to know, you know --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah.
SUSAN ROGERS: -- for research. Do you remember any particular story that you thought he may have played up a little?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well I think he played up that one about the hanging down there around the City Park, when how many were hung?
SUSAN ROGERS: Seventy (inaudible)
MARY M. SWEITZER: You know what I think that was played up? Of course that was before the turn of the century, wasn't it?
SUSAN ROGERS: I'm not quite sure when it was.
MARY M. SWEITZER: In there. But you know what I think, that that was wrong? Because when we moved here and lived across the street from the Michelbachs --
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- as kids. Children would remember those things as they talk about it. And they brag about it. And there was -- I never heard 'em say, "Oh well we ought to hang him," or "We had a whole bunch of people hung up." They never said anything about that. So that's why I -- I had always maintained that that was wrong.
SUSAN ROGERS: That you don't even think it happened?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I don't think it happened.
SUSAN ROGERS: Really?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No. Now I -- I won't say that, but that's the way I felt, because those old -- older girls were old enough that they would have been talking about that, wouldn't you think --
SUSAN ROGERS: I would think --
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- because that -- something like that in a community of 2000 people, that's not going to die in ten years. That's going to go on, and on, and on, for a long time. And I never heard about it till I read the book.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember any other crimes maybe that happened?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No.
SUSAN ROGERS: You don't remember any other particular things that the little kids remembered --
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, no. We did have a couple of really rough murders. We had one. I don't know whether anybody's mentioned Harry Nash. He killed a man and buried him out in a well out in the west side of town, and he was -- was a traveling salesman. My father knew because of the hotel, see.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And they found him, and they finally found Harry Nash. They had a big trial up here.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, what year was that around?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, it had to be before my father died, because my father was -- was called as a witness.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: So, it had to be before that. And I tell you who has written a story about it was a Cecil Richardson -- not Cecil, Gladwell, Toney Richardson wrote a story about that at one time.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. Now, you mean a story like for the newspaper --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, for one of those magazines that he writes -- are you aware that he writes under so many different pen names?
SUSAN ROGERS: When you said Gladwell, I know that one, right.
MARY M. SWEITZER: He writes under, I don't know how many different pen names.
SUSAN ROGERS: Right. And he wrote about that --
MARY M. SWEITZER: He wrote about that at some time or other, and somewhere I may have the magazine, but funny, I don't know where it is. But it -- and I know my father was a witness for that because he had registered this man at the hotel, and he knew this man. This man came through here regularly.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did you know why -- why he was killed?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, I don't know whether he stole from him, and he was supposed to have been from a pretty wealthy family, this Nash was. Then they had the trial here in town. And he was sentenced to -- to life imprisonment with no parole. Judge Jones sentenced him. And he -- he escaped. And he was gone for a long time, and then they found him, but they -- they never put back in jail --
SUSAN ROGERS: Oh really?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- he was -- he was found, I think, up in Colorado. Paul could probably tell you that better than I could because he remembered that.
SUSAN ROGERS: He remembered that?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah. Uh huh. He remembers when they -- he remembers us talking about it.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And he remembers when they found Nash, see. Cuz then he -- he did some research on it, too.
SUSAN ROGERS: Oh, he did, too?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh. So I imagine the old Coconino Suns would have that on and --
SUSAN ROGERS: Right.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- I can't remember. It would be probably like twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two, cuz my father died in twenty-three. It would have to be in there -- maybe even before that. But I can't remember, but we were small.
SUSAN ROGERS: Right. Anything else in George Hochderffer's book that -- that you don't think is quite right?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, no. I just thought that some of it was just George Hochderffer. I shouldn't --
SUSAN ROGERS: No. This is really what we need to know, you know? Right.
MARY M. SWEITZER: You know.
SUSAN ROGERS: Right. But you can't remember any other incidents --
MARY M. SWEITZER: No.
SUSAN ROGERS: -- that you disagree --
MARY M. SWEITZER: But that's the one that I -- that I questioned highly. I couldn't help it.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember any big floods or blizzards, or people getting lost maybe in a blizzard?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No.
SUSAN ROGERS: Any particular --
MARY M. SWEITZER: And I don't remember any floods. Flagstaff has had some pretty high water when that river would run down through the years. And, of course, we've had some pretty rough winters. We had one, was it in 1916, when people (inaudible), we had a real bad winter. Then we went along for a long time, and we had a bad winter, and they don't call it a bad winter, the year Paul was born, '36/37. Real bad. That's when it snowed the whole month of January. And the next one was in '48/49.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah, I've heard most about that one.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yes. And then the next was in '67 and then this one in '72.
SUSAN ROGERS: Seems like every twenty years --
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- about every twenty years, but you see '67 and '72/73, that was bad, too. But that was pretty much a localized one. That -- that one in '48/49, that was a bad one. That's when the cattlemen got caught in the north country.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, tell me a little bit about that.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, there was a couple of them that -- that had -- were running cattle up in there, and they just -- they lost an awful lot of cattle, because my husband had an aunt come through to here, and we went to the Canyon on Valentine's Day in '49. And going up, the cattle were lying along side the road dead. See, they'd frozen to death.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Then couldn't get food.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, did any of the cowboys die, do you --
MARY M. SWEITZER: Not that I know of, no.
SUSAN ROGERS: -- just the cattle, lots of cows.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: And you -- you said you didn't remember any other particular big fires --
MARY M. SWEITZER: No. Well, they had a disaster fire over on the south side, and I can't remember what year it was. A whole block burned, but no one was killed. But it wiped out a block of housing over there and made it kind of bad for the people, it was on Sunday. I remember that, cuz we went over to look at it. And it had to be after '45.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: But it was a pretty good size fire.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now, as -- as a child, did you use to go over to the south side much? Was there much over there then?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, quite a little bit. And the Prochnows lived over on that side of town, and, of course, we were friends with them, so we'd go visit over there. And their house is that little house that has the cupola on it over there--
SUSAN ROGERS: Right by the sawmill?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- yeah, uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: When you're gonna turn into --
MARY M. SWEITZER: That little --
SUSAN ROGERS: I've always wondered who that house belonged to --
MARY M. SWEITZER: The little tower cupola --
SUSAN ROGERS: Sure.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- that's where the Prochnows lived.
SUSAN ROGERS: And they built that house?
MARY M. SWEITZER: I don't know whether he built it, or whether he was working for the lumber company at the time.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do they still own that house, that family?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, uh huh. I don't know who owns that house now. It's kind of a cute little --
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- different. The artist that has done some sketching around town should get a picture of that. You know, do you remember his name? I know it, but I can't think of it.
SUSAN ROGERS: No, I sure can't.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, we'll find out right now.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, should I turn it off for a second, or is it real close?
MARY M. SWEITZER: It's right here, if I can just find it. It's just a little book. Curt Smolen.
SUSAN ROGERS: And he did that, a sketch of that house --
MARY M. SWEITZER: He did -- oh yeah, he did quite a few. How long have you been here?
SUSAN ROGERS: I've lived -- well, I went to school here, so I've been here six years.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Oh, you have? Well then, you've seen his pictures in the paper --
SUSAN ROGERS: I haven't noticed them.
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- those, those, those pen and ink sketches?
SUSAN ROGERS: Oh, uh huh. What's that name? Did I get the spelling right? And -- but he draws different like historical things about our town and stuff?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh. He does a real good job. He's been trying to do the older things.
SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah. I think that's important.
MARY M. SWEITZER: See.
SUSAN ROGERS: Right.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And then, quite a few of them have been printed in the Daily Sun.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh. Let's see. What do you remember about some, the tour -- tourism or tourists coming in. Especially with your father working at the hotel. Can you remember any peak periods?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, that I can't tell you.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay.
MARY M. SWEITZER: I think that evolved so slowly --
SUSAN ROGERS: Did it?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- uh huh. They started out, and as the cars got better then there were more coming.
SUSAN ROGERS: It wasn't any big rush?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No. It was a gradual build up.
SUSAN ROGERS: As a child, did you used to go to Oak Creek?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Occasionally, yes. Down that old road, where it had the switchbacks. I didn't go in the real early days. Not until after we had cars. But we -- it was that old road, and you can still see parts of it when you go down the other way, if you know where to look.
SUSAN ROGERS: Do you mean Schnebly Hill Road --
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, no, the road to Oak Creek. If you know where to look when you go down, there's still these little old roads.
SUSAN ROGERS: You can see --
MARY M. SWEITZER: It's almost gone now, but it was there for a lot of years.
SUSAN ROGERS: What did you used to do when you got down to Oak Creek?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Oh, we'd wade in the creek and had a picnic, and things like that.
SUSAN ROGERS: What was it like down there, was there any tourist places?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Not too many, no. That evolved slowly, too. And then when it really caught on, it went fast.
SUSAN ROGERS: Did you --
END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, BEGIN TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, you want to say a little about the Weatherford Road?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah, well that Weatherford Road was built, you see, by John Weatherford as a toll road. He was going to make a mint off of it, and his big trouble was he built it, and then in the wintertime it would slide out. So, it went for several years, and then he never did get it clear up to the top. And then one time after it was closed and pretty much abandoned, we went in there and went up on that road. And that's when I climbed to this top peak. So, but -- see, my biggest -- my biggest way of getting around the country, was I did a lot of horseback riding.
SUSAN ROGERS: Oh, sure.
MARY M. SWEITZER: See, I would -- not until I was in my late teens and early twenties did I do this horseback riding. But I covered an awful lot of country horseback riding, because this man would bring these horses from the valley up here for the summertime. And we would ride, and you believe it or not, a dollar a ride, for as long as you wanted.
SUSAN ROGERS: For as long as you wanted?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Uh huh. Uh huh.
SUSAN ROGERS: That's (inaudible)
MARY M. SWEITZER: And then he did- to say to us- see if you can't get a group together, I'll take you all up to the lookout on the mountain, you know, and we'll take lunch. And we'd go and we'd have steak, and he'd take -- have one of his wranglers go along, and they'd take a pack horse, and they'd take equipment, and we'd cook steak and make cowboy biscuits, and -- that was three dollars.
SUSAN ROGERS: Sounds like fun.
MARY M. SWEITZER: It was fun, it was a lot of fun.
SUSAN ROGERS: I bet.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And I covered all of that. And then he had -- he used -- he put his horses up at the Hochderffer place on the mountain, so when I rode on all that country, too.
SUSAN ROGERS: Now the Hochderffer place on the mountain, where was that located?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, it was up above the Michelbach place and around Fern Mountain, and up in that area, and then over to the left. It's now -- there's some homes up in there. They sold the back --
SUSAN ROGERS: Really?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- and there's homes up in there now.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, just one last little thing I wanted to ask you about. The two different "Sweitzers". I think there's confusion on everybody.
MARY M. SWEITZER: Well, this is it. Well, you see, ours is spelled SWEITZER, and you can't say that we, as Sweitzers, have been here that long, because my husband came in the late twenties to Kingman.
SUSAN ROGERS: Uh huh.
MARY M. SWEITZER: And he was from Iowa.
SUSAN ROGERS: But the Bill Switzers- and Agnes Anderson across the street is one of them. They've been here, oh much before the turn of the century, and I think he -- his three-story hardware store was there when we came --
SUSAN ROGERS: Really?
MARY M. SWEITZER: -- it was the tallest building in town, see.
SUSAN ROGERS: Really?
MARY M. SWEITZER: Yeah. It was there when we came, and he had -- there was a leather shop upstairs, I can't remember -- a shoe repair, and then he had storage, and then he had his hardware store down -- down below. He'd -- and -- and they sold saddles, that sort of thing. And Doc Williams had his first leather shop here in that building. And, of course, that was a pretty good size family, and -- and he had sisters and brothers and, of course, his one brother is well known in the valley as "Walter Switzer. Switzers (TSUSAN ROGERS: pronounced with a short "i") are part of the Switzers (TSUSAN ROGERS: pronounced with a long "i"). Only up here it's SwItzer and down there it's Switzers.
SUSAN ROGERS: But they are of the same family?
MARY M. SWEITZER: They're the same family. Walter and -- and Bill are brothers.
SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, I think that explains that. Do you have anything else that you can think of you want to add?
MARY M. SWEITZER: No, I can't think of any, but I'll probably will think of it afteSUSAN ROGERS: but I think I've talked enough.
END OF INTERVIEW