FLAGSTAFF PUBLIC LIBRARY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Robert W. Prochnow
Interview number NAU.OH.28.35

Senator Robert Prochnow, a Flagstaff native, born in 1909, and was senator from Coconino County from 1953 to 1963. Interview conducted by Susan L. Rogers on January 21, 1976. Transcribed by Jardee Transcription, June 1999.

Outline of Subjects Covered in Taped Interview

Tape 1, Side 1

Born in Flagstaff, 1909

Parent’s background

Prochnow house, near sawmill

Mexican playmates

Blacks

Early schooling

St. Anthony’s

Snowfalls

Daily chores

Milking cows

S. San Francisco St.

Prohibition

Working in mill part-time

Flu epidemic

Shopping

Commercial Hotel

Zane Gray

Governor Hunt

Furnishings

Salesmen

Crime at Lake Mary, Mormom Lake dances

Fires

Floods

Wooden sidewalks

Tape 1, Side 2

Water shortage

Arizona State College

Library dates

Social activities

Candy Box soda fountain

Teachers

Rules for girls

Close relationships

Flagstaff High School

Sports with college

Dr. Raymond

Babbitts

George Hochderffer

Antiques

Riordans

Days of ’49 (Fourth of July)

Marriage in 1935

March of Dimes

Elks

Senator from Coconino County

Why ran

Accomplishments

Forestry School for NAU

People known from Senate

Why moved to Lake Montezuma

Served on Board of Supervisors for Coconino County

Fredonia

Page

This is an interview with Senator Robert W. Prochnow, who was a senator from Coconino County from 1953 to 1963. The interview is being conducted on January 21, 1976, at 421 South Sycamore Lane at Lake Montezuma, which is his home. The interviewer is Susan L. Rogers, representing the Flagstaff City-Coconino County Public Library. [A third, unidentified person - maybe the narrator's wife, Alyce Prochnow, - is present and makes a few very brief comments. (Tr.)]

SUSAN L. ROGERS: Senator Prochnow, when and where were you born?

SENATOR ROBERT W. PROCHNOW: I was born in Flagstaff, November 16, 1909.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. And can you tell me just a little bit about your parents' background, how they ended up in Flagstaff?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: They were both immigrants, my mother from Alsace-Lorraine, and my father from Berlin, Germany. My mother was in Flagstaff as a young girl, keeping house for her brothers, who were working in the lumber mills. My father was on his way to Alaska, and they met in Flagstaff, and he stayed, and they were married.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. What year did they get married?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Ninety-eight [1898].

SUSAN ROGERS: Can you tell me a little bit about the houses you lived in, in Flagstaff?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, the first house, my father was working for the lumber mill, and the first house was in the south east part of Flagstaff near what was then the Flagstaff Lumber Company, was close to the mill where he worked. And I spent all of my childhood there, until the time we were married and had our own home in Flagstaff.

SUSAN ROGERS: Now, the house that you're talking about is that the house that's still standing?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes.

SUSAN ROGERS: Were you born in that house?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, I was the youngest child. The brother just [older] than I was born there. I was born in a house over on the OTHER side of town, when my father worked for the OTHER mill, and that house has been burned down for some time.

SUSAN ROGERS: That was Bob’s Big Boy?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Near there uh-huh, south of there about a block - across the street and south.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. Do you want to tell me a little bit about the neighborhood you lived in, who some of the neighbors were, how many houses around you?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, there weren't many houses, and my neighbors were sons and daughters of most of the people who worked in the mill. At that time there were a lot of Mexican families there and a number of my playmates were Mexican boys. There were some Anglos there, a few families, but not too many in that part of town at that time.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did it cause any problems for the whites and the Mexicans?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, back then we got along very well. We had our childhood squabbles and fusses like all youngsters do, but I had many good friends among the Mexican people, and still consider them very good friends. Most of 'em are gone now, but we had friendships that lasted many years.

SUSAN ROGERS: What about any blacks in the area?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, there were VERY few blacks in Flagstaff when I was growing up. The first one I remember was when I was about a junior or senior in high school. There was one black boy in the high school. There were maybe three or four black families, but he was the only one in school. This was in the middle 20’s.

SUSAN ROGERS: What about Indians? Were there very many living in Flag?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, very few. In fact, the only Indians we ever saw around Flagstaff were those who came in RARELY to shop.

SUSAN ROGERS: They didn't come in every Saturday, like they do now?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, because transportation then was a problem. People that came to Flagstaff from the reservation, most of 'em came by horse and wagon. It was just a little too far for the Indians to come in. They did their shopping at the trading posts on the Indian reservation in those days.

SUSAN ROGERS: Now, if they did come into town to do some shopping, apparently they'd probably have to stay overnight somewhere. Did they just camp out?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: They'd just camp out, and most of 'em would usually camp on the east end of Flagstaff because there were some convenient places where they could camp. It was rare when we saw Indians.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. Do you want to tell me a little bit about your early schooling?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, I attended what was then St. Anthony's Academy, Catholic school. I went through elementary school there. And from there I went to Flagstaff High School, and then I attended what was then Northern Arizona College, Arizona State College. I was there a couple of years, and then I went a year or so to the University of Arizona (?).

SUSAN ROGERS: Let's backtrack to St. Anthony's. Can you tell me a little bit about that school and maybe what classes you took?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, it wasn't too large of a school. I doubt if there were a hundred students there, mostly children of Catholic families. And I went through the eight grades there. And I remember that usually there were about three grades to each classroom, and one teacher would conduct the classes for all three grades. Well, you can see there weren't too many children there at that time. If there were thirty students in a room, in three classes, that was pretty good. And I felt that they were strict, we had to study and we had to do our homework and we had to behave ourselves. It certainly wasn't like it is today. If we got in trouble, we knew about it, and they didn't hesitate to use a ruler when you had it coming. We didn't dare go home saying anything about it or we got in more trouble.

SUSAN ROGERS: Really? So the parents completely backed the teachers up?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, no question about it.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. Now, in a Catholic school, were a few of your Mexican friends going to that school?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, there again, a lot of the students were Mexican children from Mexican families. Historically the Mexican people were mostly Catholic in those days.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did most of you and your friends walk to school together?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, yes.

SUSAN ROGERS: Now did you return home for lunch?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, except when it was EXTREMELY cold or a lot of snow, then we'd carry lunch. And it seems we had a lot more snow and a lot deeper snow when I was a youngster than we have now, because I can remember struggling through the snow many times to get to school.

SUSAN ROGERS: Talking about snow, what about any other big blizzards do you remember in particular?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, in, I guess it was '36 we had a heavy snow in Flagstaff, and then another big one in '47. They were big winters. Well, I guess the one in '47 was probably bigger. Last year they had a lot of snow in Flagstaff, it was spread out. The '36 and '47 that I'm speaking of, the snow came pretty much in one month, January. I've seen over six feet of snow on the level.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did it stop a lot of activity?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, practically everything. But I was a youngster, there weren't many automobiles, and they were still using horses and sleighs to deliver groceries and wood. And that was the transportation in Flagstaff. I know the first year we were married, Alyce hadn’t seen that much snow, and she went out to hang the wash one time _______looking for the clothesline and asked me where they were, and she was standing on them.

SUSAN ROGERS: (chuckles) Oh goodness. Okay. Did you used to have cows? I know a lot of people had cows.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, we had cows - not more than one at a time. Of course we would _____________. We had a few chickens. There were six boys in our family, and we took our turns at milking the cow and taking care of the chickens. It was quite a problem to take care of a cow in those days. There was a pasture where we could put the cow during GOOD weather, but in the wintertime the cow was cooped up in the barn and corral and had to be fed all the time. Of course feed was cheap, but so was milk. So with a large family like we had, why, it was much better to have our own cow.

SUSAN ROGERS: Now, did you sell any of the milk, or was it just for your family?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, there were times, if we had a surplus of milk, we would sell to an individual or a club or something like that, but not very much. I remember delivering milk on my way to school, and I would carry the milk in a porcelain milk can that held probably two or three quarts - a tall, slender porcelain can with a lid that slipped down on the inside, sort of like a milk can.

SUSAN ROGERS: About how often [did you deliver milk to someone else?].

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Once a day on the way to school.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: We had a weekly paper in Flagstaff in those early days, and I used to deliver papers. I had a donkey that I rode to deliver papers, rather than a bicycle.

SUSAN ROGERS: Where was your route? Was it on the south side?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: It was on the west side, on the side of Observatory Hill, by the railroad track in the Old Town, in that area.

SUSAN ROGERS: How settled was that area? Were there quite a few in there?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, there was quite a few in there at that time. Of course Flagstaff was a small town, and the houses were pretty well scattered. And naturally, in the early days, most of the houses were fairly close to the mill where most of the people worked. Then as businesses and people started living and working downtown, a few more people started living in that part of town, around the courthouse and the schools.

SUSAN ROGERS: While you were going to Catholic school, do you remember any competition with the public schools at all? On the student level?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, not too much. We had a little fuss or friction once in a while if we'd run into each other. We would participate occasionally in games like maybe basketball or baseball, or sandlot football. But this wasn't very serious. I had a lot of friends that went to the public schools.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did you ever get down onto South San Francisco Street?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes. It was quite different then, in fact. Some of my Mexican friends were from down there. I would visit _________ with them. As I recall, I think there was only one business down there, and it was a pool hall. And one of my friends' father owned the pool hall. I would go over there once in a while with him, and I can remember it was quite a treat because he had candy - a piece of Mexican candy that I especially liked. I'd get a piece of that when I went to the pool hall.

SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember at that time, was San Francisco Street having any kind of reputation.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: In those days, no. Not like it has in the last twenty or thirty years. It was just another part of town and we just accepted it like that. As far as.... Well, of course that was during the days of Prohibition that I remember it, and I don’t know, there may have been bootleggers places where they gambled, but I didn't know.

SUSAN ROGERS: Since you go onto bootlegging, do you ever remember any bootlegging experiences.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, I remember bootlegging was talked about quite a bit. I don't want to mention any names, but I had a job working for a man, and I used to have to stop by the bootleggers and pick up a bottle for him on my way to work. And I was just a youngster. But it wasn't frowned on too much. I mean, you know, those old-timers were used to having liquor and it was part of their way of life, and they didn't abuse it, it just became a necessity, or a strong habit with them, and it was taken care of that way. But there were several bootleggers around there. They had reputations. I remember one was supposed to be a famous, well-known bootlegger, and I guess he catered to certain people in town, but he was "Tommy the Greek" bootlegger. I didn’t ever know him, but I heard people speak of him.

SUSAN ROGERS: At the same time, what do you remember about the Depression? How maybe it affected your family, or also Flagstaff?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, it affected all our families. I guess Flagstaff probably not as much as big cities, because I don't remember bread lines and such. The Depression came along after I was out of high school, and that's why I wasn't able to finish college, because I just didn't have the money and had to go to work. And a lot of people found themselves in the same boat. Things were tough, and it was difficult to find a job, and if you DID work, it didn't pay very much. When I was a youngster, I worked in the mill on Saturday, and sometimes in the evening to make a little spending money. And I was paid the big sum of fifteen cents an hour. And Saturdays, I'd work a ten-hour day and $1.50 was quite a bit of money for a kid in those days.

SUSAN ROGERS: Now, what did you do in the mill?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, they had one part of the mill that they called the box factory where they made wooden boxes for fruit and vegetables and citrus. And there was a machine in there that young people could work on. I worked on this machine for these boxes.

SUSAN ROGERS: Were there quite a few kids in the Flagstaff area working at that time?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, a lot of the kids in OUR neighborhood worked like I did on weekends and Saturdays, and sometimes in the evenings, it gave us a little spending money. Things were cheap in those days. We could go to a movie for a dime and buy a big bag of popcorn for a nickel.

SUSAN ROGERS: Where did you go to the movies?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: What is now the Orpheum Theater.

SUSAN ROGERS: You went there?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Uh-huh.

SUSAN ROGERS: What about any other entertainment downtown or elsewhere, maybe in the neighborhood?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, not much. We used to go ice skating on the River de Flag, when it had water in it. In winters when it DID have water it froze solid, we would skate on the river. There was no place to swim except in the City Park lake. There's a dam there and created a lake, and that was the only swimming hole we had.

SUSAN ROGERS: You didn't swim in the river?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, the river make this lake. And that was it. But as far as recreation, we just made our own. Of course kids in those days, in the summertime played baseball, and football in the fall. Winter we’d go skating or sledding.

SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember that flu epidemic?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, I don't. It was during or before World War I.

SUSAN ROGERS: Right, 1918.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: I remember people speaking of it, and my mother telling us to be careful so we wouldn't catch it, and fortunately none of us in our family had the flu.

SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember if you went to school during the time of the flu epidemic?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, there were times I think the schools were closed during the epidemic.

SUSAN ROGERS: The kids just played then?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, no, we kept pretty much to ourselves. We didn't want people to gather, and we just thought, well they were trying to disburse people and keep them at home. And they stayed pretty much a home except they had to go out for groceries or something like that, and that's about it. They didn’t have movies or anything.

SUSAN ROGERS: Where did your mother and family do most of the shopping?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Downtown. There was a company store near our home, but they didn't carry much of a stock. My mother did most of her shopping through the years at Babbitts'. She would go down and do her shopping, and of course she had a pile of groceries for a big family. And Babbitts' would deliver the groceries, by team and wagon in the summer and by sled in the winter. And of course my mother would buy big supply of groceries. A week's supply each time she went to town. She did all of her own baking and her own washing and raised 12 children.

SUSAN ROGERS: I suppose you all had chores around the house then, too?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, we all chipped in to help. There were enough girls that the boys didn't have to do the dishes, but there were other things we could do.

SUSAN ROGERS: You had to do the cows.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: The cows and chickens and maybe scrub a floor or something like that, but it didn't hurt us.

SUSAN ROGERS: Now, your father was involved with the Commercial Hotel right?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did you ever work there?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, as a youngster I used to work as a bellhop, and carrying luggage. As I got older in the summertime, my brother and I would do painting on the inside, painting and maintenance; painting the rooms and the halls and doing repair work on the roof and things like that.

SUSAN ROGERS: What types of people came through there? Do you remember any big tourist booms or anything like that, or where they were coming from?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: We wouldn't have tourists in those days. Most of his customers were traveling salesmen, and they traveled by railroad and the hotel was right across the street from the railroad depot, so most of the traveling men stayed at his hotel. In the early days in the twenties, they used to make a lot of movies in Flagstaff, in the Flagstaff area - Oak Creek. The movie people all stayed at the hotel, and I remember a lot of the old stars like Tom Mix and William Hart, and Zane Grey. In fact, Zane Grey used to stay there quite often when he came to Arizona. I guess he and my dad became very good friends.

SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember anything personal about Zane Grey?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, I can remember probably.... I remember once that he killed a bear, and he thought it was a great treat. He sent, he thought it was great to give our family some of the meat. My dad brought the meat home to mother, just threw up her hands in horror because of the idea of eating a piece of bear meat. I remember THAT about Zane Grey.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, what about Governor Hunt? Did he used to stay?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, I can remember when he would come to Flagstaff campaigning, and he was a personal friend of my father’s and he always stayed at his hotel. He was quite a character _________. An interesting, fascinating man, down-to-earth. I can remember on the sidewalks - the streets were dirt then - and the sidewalks were maybe this high or higher above the dirt street. And many times I'd see him sitting on the edge of the sidewalks, visiting with people and he always wore a white linen suit. And he was just a down-to-earth person.

SUSAN ROGERS: He never got dusty though.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, it didn't bother him. He had several of these white suits.

SUSAN ROGERS: He liked them. Okay.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Governor Hunt was a Democrat. Of course if he was living today, why, he would be considered an ultra-conservative. That's how parties have changed since those days.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. Could you just tell me what the inside of the hotel looked like in those days?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, my first recollection was a long, narrow lobby, and on the right-hand side in the adjoining room was the dining room, where they served meals. And on the left-hand side, there was the place where I wasn't ever allowed because it was a saloon. This was the men's room where they had - in those days they called it a saloon, today we would call it a bar. They served drinks in there and they played cards, and of course that was during- up until Prohibition, why, it was that. But after Prohibition, it was closed, and that was torn out and made a larger lobby. There was kind of a winding staircase upstairs, and I remember the long hallways upstairs AND downstairs. Real high ceilings, buildings in those days had high ceilings.

SUSAN ROGERS: What about the furnishings down in the lobby?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, there was a long row of chairs, and they were rocking chairs, black, and upholstered in black leather. And JUST off of the lobby there was another room that was called the writing room, and they had a row of desks in there, and there again were leather upholstered straight-backed chairs. And there was a light over each one. It was divided into a little partition so people could sit and write, and a light over each desk.

SUSAN ROGERS: Now, was this maybe because the sales people could set up their displays?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, there were rooms called sample rooms where the salesmen would set up their displays and then bring the merchants in to look at their display. But whenever they'd come in, they always had a big bunch of trunks that they brought with them. There was a baggage man. He had his stand at the hotel, and he had a horse and a small wagon, and he'd go over and pick up these trunks and bring 'em to the hotel to the sample room, for the salesman.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did the same salesmen come over and over, or were there different ones?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, they were usually.... They had a regular schedule, and it may be a month or every two months or whatever, and they became regular customers, and usually they knew when they'd be back, so they'd make their reservation when they left, for their return. They always traveled by train in those days; of course, there were no stage lines - very few automobiles.

SUSAN ROGERS: What mainly were they selling?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Clothing. Some blankets, bedding, but mostly clothing.

SUSAN ROGERS: Any big crimes you remember?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh I remember hearing a lot as a youngster, just vaguely hearing adults talking about it. I can't recall any. Probably one in the late twenties. Lake Mary and Mormon Lake used to be popular places for Saturday night dances, and they got pretty rough. And it was during Prohibition and a lot of people carried their bootleg whiskey out there, and people got pretty drunk because they had to drink their bottles fast and didn't sit down and enjoy a drink like we do today. They'd go out to a car and take a big swig, and they'd get pretty high and pretty rough at these dances. And there was a killing at Mormon Lake that was quite famous at that time. Two prominent people involved. That kind of stuff.

SUSAN ROGERS: That was the late 20’s? What about any big fires?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, I don't remember any big fires. We would have fires occasionally around the mill, but they had big fire protection and all the employees would strut in because they knew if the mill burnt down their jobs were through. Downtown they didn’t have too many fires. However Flagstaff has had several serious fires, but they were before my time. We had a fire department when I was growing up.

SUSAN ROGERS: What about any floods at the Rio de Flag?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No. Again, I heard the people TALK of flooding, and there were times when there was a lot of high water, and maybe today you might call it flooding, but if it was, it was just high water. It would seep into houses in low places, but there was never any thing wash-out from flooding - no homes washed away or destroyed or bridges washed out that I can remember, but I’ve seen a lot of high water spread out all over town primarily because of poor draining.

SUSAN ROGERS: Now what did this do to the wooden sidewalks.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, sometimes it would get high enough to float 'em around a little bit, but when it dried up, they'd just move 'em back in place.

SUSAN ROGERS: I'm going to flip this tape over.

[END TAPE 1, SIDE 1, BEGIN TAPE 1, SIDE 2]

SUSAN ROGERS: What about water shortages?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Flagstaff used to have a lot of water shortages. I can remember many times when they had to haul water to Flagstaff by train. Of course in those days not many people had lawns or nice yards like we have today. A few had gardens. But even then, water was a scarce item and you learned to save it. In the twenties and even in the thirties people weren't allowed to even wash their automobiles with water. But again, as I said, not many people had yards where they needed water. And Flagstaff depended on its water at that time from the runoff from the Peaks; they’d developed a gathering system and brought the water down to large reservoirs north of town. I don't know if you've ever seen them or not. There were two large reservoirs. They would fill these reservoirs in the spring and summer runoffs, and if it was a dry year and we didn't get any runoff, those reservoirs would go dry and people were just hard up for water.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did you ever have to go to the springs with your family or actually get the water from a spring?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No. No, we always had plenty of drinking water. Now, a lot of people did do this, because they thought when the water got low it wasn't the best, and they would go to springs just to get better and cleaner, clearer water. We didn't have to. When there was a shortage and they had to ship water in, they shipped it in by rail and pumped it into the City lines and reservoirs and people just continued using it like they had in the past.

SUSAN ROGERS: You said that you went up to NAU. What year was that?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: In '29 and '30. Then I was down at the University in '31-'32.

SUSAN ROGERS: Tell me a little bit about the school then.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, there again, it was not a very BIG school - if there were 300 students there, that was a lot. The emphasis, of course, was on education, and they provided a lot of fine teachers from Flagstaff, Arizona State. And most of those people were able to get real good jobs teaching all over the state for many years. No matter where you went in Arizona, you found a Flagstaff graduate, either teaching, or the principal, or superintendent, or SOMETHING.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did you live at home?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, I lived at home and went to school. And of course things were a lot different. The boys could only see the girls until 8:30 or 9:00 on weeknights, and 10:30 or 11:00 on weekends. We were allowed in the lobby to visit with the girls. Of course a lot of the courting and meeting went on at the library, because the library was open every night until nine, and this is where a lot of romancing went on, on "library dates." They had dances. Nearly every weekend they'd have a Saturday night dance. And once in a while they'd have a dance, maybe on like Wednesdays, but this was only 'til nine o'clock, and weekends until ten or eleven.

SUSAN ROGERS: Now, was there a gathering place, like a soda shop or something like that?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Not right on the campus at that time. There were a couple of places downtown ___________ the Candy Box. The Candy Box was probably the most popular at that time, and they had jukeboxes and soda fountains. This one in particular had a balcony with tables up there. Of course this was a good place for kids to go. And then there was another place called Griffin's; was a nice place. Always they had the long soda fountain, and then booths and tables.

SUSAN ROGERS: Let's see, now where was that Candy Box located?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: The Candy Box was located about where - you know where Nauman's Insurance Company, Flagstaff Insurance Company.... I think Western Union is along there somewhere, on Aspen. Across the street from the House of Sound - you know, Troxell's House of Sound - well, across the street, somewhere in that area. And Griffin's was around on the alley. I think that's where now the office supply - across the alley from Spackeen’s Book and Gift Shop. For a long time this was Griffin's, and then it was Babbitt's Drugstore for a while. Mrs. Prochnow: Baker’s Book and Gift.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yeah, Baker's Book and Gift, that's right.

SUSAN ROGERS: I thought maybe it had a new name change. (laughs)

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, they're good friends. I get the two of 'em mixed up once in a while.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay. What about some of the teachers that you had, and courses that you had?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, in college? I was trying to major in business administration.

SUSAN ROGERS: That was possible even though it was a teacher's college?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes. And Dr. Bellwood, who passed away, a few years ago, was teaching business, gave us accounting at one time. He later became temporary president of the university. That stands out. Of course we became very good friends for many years after that.

Mrs. Prochnow (?): (inaudible)

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Huh? Mrs. Prochnow: Francis Osbourn.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: And Francis Osbourn. He was teaching mechanical drawing, and I took a course from him. I'm trying to think of some of the English teachers and history teachers. Psychology, Dean Lintz taught me psychology. She was dean of women and the matron of one of the girls' dormitories, and also taught psychology. She was a real strict old gal, but I liked her and we got along just great. In fact, I tried to get along good with all of the deans of the dormitories because I wanted to keep my dormitory privileges of visiting the girls!

SUSAN ROGERS: Could they take those privileges away from guys?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, or girls too.

SUSAN ROGERS: But I mean, they could say that you couldn't come and visit?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: "Well, you just haven't behaved yourself. We don't want you around here." And then, of course, you had to meet somewhere else - the library, down town, or somewhere else. But on cold winter afternoons, it wasn't very pleasant to be out sitting under a tree. It was much nicer to be in the lobby of the dormitory.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did you ever eat at school?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No - once in a great while just as a guest. I still run into a lot of people that I went to school with. In fact, the governor just recently appointed me to a state committee appointed me and a friend of mine - we were in school at the same time - he appointed us both to the same committee, State Board on Junior Colleges. I saw him the other day at our first meeting and said.... Well, it's the first time I've seen him in ten or twelve years, and we had a lot of fun you know, friendships and acquaintances.

SUSAN ROGERS: What was the relationship between the teachers and students at that time?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, it was a real personal thing, because the teachers knew every one of their students personally, and they took a personal interest. You know small student body, and a faculty that probably knew every kid in school. Those who were students of his, he knew ESPECIALLY well. They were very close. We considered them, really, as friends.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did you used to do a lot of things off campus together too?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, not much of that, because in those days, a teacher seemed quite a bit older than his students. We didn't have much in common socially. But on campus and in the classroom, there was a very close relationship there. And if a student was having trouble, the professor wouldn't hesitate a minute to take a lot of extra time and help him out. I know Bell (?) would help me out many times if I got in a bind on a problem. The same in high school, too. I would say the same thing for our high school teachers. They were very close to us.

SUSAN ROGERS: Tell me a little bit maybe about some of those, when you went to high school.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, the superintendent was a good friend of mine, and took a special interest in me. I got into trouble like a lot of kids did. And I was gonna quit school and one of the teachers was going to kick me out of his class, and the superintendent took a special interest in me, and offered to conduct a private class FOR me, until I got things straightened out - and he did. I think I'd played hooky or something and got caught. And that was a serious offense in those days. But the coach was a good friend of mine, and the math teacher. I had good friends in high school, too, with the teachers.

SUSAN ROGERS: In high school, what kind of dating, where did the kids go, where did they gather?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, there again, the occasional dances that we had in high school, you'd take your date there. Or maybe to an afternoon movie, a Saturday or Sunday movie. Or go down and have a Coke at the soda fountain, like the Candy Box.

SUSAN ROGERS: You would go to the same places with the college kids?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Uh-huh, but there were two separate groups.

SUSAN ROGERS: Once you got inside.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Uh-huh. And there wasn't any problem between the college and high school students. Way back in the early days, in the early twenties, the high school used to play football against the college - football and basketball. And a lot of times the high school had a better team than the college, because it was bigger. They didn't have over fifteen or twenty boys in the college at that time.

SUSAN ROGERS: What about- back to college for a minute, what was the relationship with the community?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, I think it was very good. In fact, I think it was really, I think it was more personal then than it is now. The townspeople backed the school, and the merchants who could, would hire as many of the students as they could to help them through school. In those days, most of the kids that were able to stay in school had to work to STAY there. They could get by pretty cheap. I think room and board was something like twenty-five dollars a month in those days. And a kid could go through school with just a little bit of extra help. A lot of 'em worked all the WAY through school, they worked down town some, a lot of 'em worked on campus. Yes, the relationship was good between the townspeople and the school.

SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember any prominent people in the community that you want to talk about, prominently maybe characters too, maybe I shouldn’t say prominent, but characters in the community in those days?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: They do what?

SUSAN ROGERS: Any types of personalities or characters?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: (pause) It’s difficult to pick out any. There were so many that stand out. Dr. Raymond comes to my mind, a very fine person. And the Dr. Sliphers.

SUSAN ROGERS: Can you tell me a little bit about what you remember about Dr. Raymond?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, I can remember he was a FINE gentleman. He was still practicing a little when I was a youngster. In fact, he was our family doctor some of the time. But he got interested in sheep and land, and he also was interested in developing certain grasses that could grow and survive up on the mountain without regular water, without regular rain, because Flagstaff is pretty dry, really. He was a kind, gentleperson. If anyone was in trouble, he would help them out and they would never know where the help came from.

SUSAN ROGERS: Do you remember any particular incidents when he helped somebody?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: I can't put my finger on any, but I do know of many poor families that he did help. And they never knew where it came from. And then of course the Babbitts. The older Babbitts were fine people. I especially remember old George Babbitt, Sr. He and my father were very close friends, and they were involved in some mining interests many, many years ago, in Mohave County. He would have been let's see.... I guess there's none of that family left, except his son George, in Phoenix. And his son George in Phoenix- a man in his seventies. And George Babbitt, Sr., has probably been dead fifty years or more. And of course.... Oh, I know so many of 'em; it's just hard to pick anyone out.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, you mentioned the Sliphers.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: They were the people at the Lowell Observatory, and I went to work with some of the Slipher children. I think one is in Flagstaff now, one of the girls. She had been gone for many years, and when her husband retired, they returned to Flagstaff and took over the Slipher interests.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did you remember Dr. Lowell?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, I don't, because I don't think he spent too much time in Flagstaff, during MY time. Before, yes, because my father spoke of him many times. But I don't really remember HIM.

SUSAN ROGERS: How about George Hochderffer?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, I knew the Hochderffers REAL well. In fact, we were interested in antiques, so we got ahold of some of their fine antiques. And one was a rosewood piano that Hochderffers had and was brought to Flagstaff around the Horn and up the Colorado River and then by wagon to Flagstaff, so it was quite a piece of furniture.

SUSAN ROGERS: You don't have that anymore?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, we sold all of that. It got to be a little bit cumbersome for a small house. But I knew him quite well _____. In his later years, he lived here in Verde Valley and Cottonwood. He served in the legislature during the territorial days; State legislature.

SUSAN ROGERS: Have you read his book?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, 'cause I was going to ask you, it tends to be a little bit controversial, and I was just wondering if you knew anything about it. Did you know Judge Doe?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No. There again, I've heard of him many times, and he was during my time, but I just.... He was a judge at the courthouse and I didn't have any excuse for being up there. But I do remember some of the OTHER old-timers: an old time lawyer by the name of Frank Harrison was a very fine lawyer. But in later years he had a problem with drinking. They used to say that even drunk he was better than most lawyers cold sober. He WAS a fine lawyer.

Well, I'll remember a lot of things that I would like to have mentioned, after you're gone!

SUSAN ROGERS: Right! I'm trying to think of any other names. Well, let's move on, and if you think of somebody, let me know.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Of course there's Riordans, are part of Flagstaff.

SUSAN ROGERS: Right. Did you know them?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, knew them, and they had a son pretty close to my age. He's still in Flagstaff. We get together occasionally at junctures.

SUSAN ROGERS: Did you used to go to any parties at their house?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, I think probably a couple as a youngster. In later years I bought my business from the Riordens. They had an insurance business and they wanted to dispose of it, and we bought it, took over their business.

SUSAN ROGERS: What about Mr. Dolan?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, I knew the Dolans very well. In fact they were our close neighbors when I was a youngster growing up. Their oldest daughter was about my age. I think we were in school together. There were three other girls younger than that.

SUSAN ROGERS: What was your impression of Mr. Dolan?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Very fine people. I always liked the Dolans. The girl that was my age, that I went to school with, was the mother of Joe Riordan, in Flagstaff.

SUSAN ROGERS: What about some of those early Fourth of Julys? Tell me about those.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, they were quite a celebration. East Aspen Avenue ended about halfway down the block from San Francisco Street, that was about the, uh- And then the two corners on the next east corners were big vacant lots. In the early days it was set up and called, The Days of '49, and people used to let their whiskers grow and dress like Forty-niners. I can remember big tents set up there where they had wide-open gambling and poker and roulette wheels and the works for the Fourth of July celebration. Then, of course, this was before the Pow Wow, and they would have the parades and fireworks and ____ rodeo. And then, of course, it developed into the Indian show that they still have _______. But the parades were interesting, and it was always fun as a youngster to go downtown. The streets were always full of people at night, and it seemed like bright lights, because we had more lights around the areas where they had the tents. Kind of like a big carnival.

SUSAN ROGERS: You mentioned the parades. Who were in these parades? Was it mainly Indians?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, mostly townspeople.

SUSAN ROGERS: It was the Wild West and everything?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yeah, horses and wagons and vans. If they had a baseball team, then the baseball players in their suits and things like that. Town baseball team.

SUSAN ROGERS: Maybe when you were going to NAU or any other time, can you remember any important performances that came? Maybe artists, musicians, scientists?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No. Not too much in those days. We were going right into the Depression then, and you know, coming along in the thirties, things were pretty tight. There were a few things that came along, but nothing that was outstanding.

SUSAN ROGERS: Do you want to tell me what you did since you’ve gone on to college, and then we can go in and talk about when you were senator.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, things were rough in the thirties. We were married in '35, when it was still pretty rough Depression.

SUSAN ROGERS: Do you want to tell how you met your wife?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Through a dance. Winslow was a favorite place for the Flagstaff boys to go, because they had a nice dance hall and pretty girls, and that's where we met. I courted her from Flagstaff. We were married in Flagstaff during the Depression. We survived. I had a service station. Struggled with that for a while, and then went out to California for a while and tried it, and couldn't make it, so I came back to Flagstaff and was running a motel, which is now the Arrowhead Lodge - a very fine motel in those days, one of the nicest. (Ed: Now the Twilight Motel)

The war came along and I went in the service, in the Navy. I was in the Navy Seabees. Then after the war I came home and we had a cigar store and newsstand in Flagstaff for about ten years. Then I went into the Senate in 1952. But I was involved in other things besides that - the Elks and American Legion. I was chairman of the March of Dimes for twenty-five years, state chairman two years (?).

SUSAN ROGERS: Let’s back track a little bit...

ROBERT PROCHNOW: That was back in the days when March of Dimes was still raising money, before they discovered the Salk treatment to prevent polio. There was a lot of polio in the early days. The money we collected went for research and patient care. It was gratifying working for something like that, because you knew where everything was going. Then it was ESPECIALLY gratifying for it to become so successful to find a treatment for it.

SUSAN ROGERS: Was there quite a bit of polio in Flagstaff?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Not too much. No, we didn't have too many. We had a few cases, people that had moved there, that we took care of. And one or two local families. And if we had any surplus in the funds we collected, we sent them to national and we knew they were put to good use in research, and especially patient care.

SUSAN ROGERS: Tell me a little bit about the Elks in Flagstaff.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, of course Elks has been a very popular men's organization in Flagstaff for many, many years. I think they just recently celebrated their seventy-fifth anniversary.

SUSAN ROGERS: Something like that.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: I think, yeah, because I've been a member of the Elks for thirty, thirty-five years. My father was a charter member. I was exalted ruler of the lodge at one point. But I enjoyed it, it was a nice fraternal social organization, and they do a lot of good. They do a lot of work with kids - I guess they still do. The big event was our Christmas baskets every year, gathering food and delivering it to the poor. And the Legion did the same thing.

SUSAN ROGERS: And where was the building where you held your meetings?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, when I first went into the Elks, we were meeting upstairs above the old Masonic Building. No, not the Masonic Building, Oddfellows. You know where _____ is, down on

East Aspen?

SUSAN ROGERS: Uh-huh.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: It was upstairs there. That's where the Elks were meeting. Then they built their own home on West Birch, and then they later built the place where they are now.

SUSAN ROGERS: Is the place on West Birch still there?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Yes, and I don't know what's in there. Now, at one time, the Elks Lodge - that's before I was a member - had a big lodge, but it's now the Flagstaff Library. That was the Elks Lodge at one time. There was a big three-story building out in front, and they had rooms in there where some bachelors lived. And then of course they had the big lodge hall, a very popular place for Saturday night dances. But during the Depression, the Elks just couldn't hack it and lost the building.

SUSAN ROGERS: Let me switch the tape.

[END TAPE 1, SIDE 2; BEGIN TAPE 2, SIDE 1]

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, do you want to tell me why you decided to run for senator, how that came about?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, I got interested in the community and things that were going on there, was involved in many things like the Elks and the Legion and the March of Dimes. I really hadn't thought about going into politics, but some friends asked me to run, and I did, and that was it.

SUSAN ROGERS: And you won.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Uh-huh. But really, I hadn't thought of it until just a short time before I got into it.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Can you tell me a little bit about what accomplishments you've had, or else failures?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: In the legislature?

SUSAN ROGERS: Right.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, when I first went to the legislature, it was considered the most exclusive men's club in the state of Arizona. There were only nineteen members of the Senate. It wasn't Democrat and Republican in those days, because I think there were only one or two Republicans in the Senate. The division in the Senate was between the conservatives and the more liberal Democrats. When I went down there, I discovered that it was split right down the middle. There were eight on the conservative side, and eight on the more liberal side, and I found myself with the deciding vote my first day in the Senate! And I took advantage of it and got the committee assignments that I wanted and was very pleased with it. I became chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee and stayed in that position for ten years, and it was probably the most effective committee in the legislature.

I did introduce some legislation that I was proud of. I got the School of Forestry established in Flagstaff. And I got a strong School of Nursing set up in Flagstaff. The litter law was one of my first pieces of legislation. I was chairman of a select committee of legislators and lay people to set up the junior colleges, and we worked on that for two years, and set up and made the recommendation and the legislation that set up the junior college system in Arizona. At that time there were only two junior college systems in Arizona, and now there are seventeen. I was one of the sponsors, and pushed the legislation through. When the law was set up, Arizona was considered to have one of the best junior college systems in the United States. We picked the brains of all the best colleges in the country and took what we felt was the best of each and put it together and came up with a real fine junior college system. So I've gone full circle. The governor has now appointed me BACK on the State Board of Junior Colleges, and I'm looking forward to it, and I know I'm going to enjoy it.

And I did a lot of work on highways and making many changes that changed the highway department in Arizona, and made it a more efficient operation. Even in THOSE days, they were having serious trouble at the state prison. The state prison in Arizona, when I first went down there was considered one of the worst prisons in the United States. And I was convinced of the need and was in a position to work for good appropriations and brought the prison up to a pretty good standard before I left. The same with the Children's Colony. I was very much interested in the welfare of the retarded children and I worked hard for the development of that. And I served five years on the State Board of Mental Retardation - after I got out of the Senate _____________. I introduced many other pieces of legislation - I just can't recall it now. But education was one of my prime interests. NAU awarded me a plaque - there's a plaque up there in one of the buildings citing my interest in education.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, do you want to tell me a little bit more about how you got that Forestry School, the details and such?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, I used my influence, my position as chairman of the Appropriations Committee, to twist the arm of the regents and the president of the University of Arizona, to get the school in Flagstaff. Tucson wanted it, and they put up a real fight to try to get it in Tucson, but I convinced them that Flagstaff was a natural. It was in the heart of the largest forest. And the Forest Service themselves had their main experimental station in Flagstaff. I finally convinced the Board of Regents to not resist the legislation that I was introducing to have the school established there. My friends in the Senate backed me up on it, and it became a law and established the School of Forestry in Flagstaff.

SUSAN ROGERS: Was the Senate what you expected?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: I enjoyed it very much. As I said earlier, there were only nineteen members in the Senate when I first went there. This meant that five counties had two members, and the other nine counties had one. Is that right?

SUSAN ROGERS: Yeah, I think so.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: So they could never get it changed, because the five counties had ten votes against the nine votes the other way. But I convinced a couple of friends of mine to go for a change to set it up exactly like the national Congress, two senators from each county, and the house based on population. This continued for many years until - well, it was changed here about four years after I was out of there, and set up on the one man, one vote deal, that they operate under now.

But when it was a small body of men, even when there was only twenty-eight members, a person was plenty busy. I was on a half-dozen committees and chairman of three. I was president pro tem, which is like the vice-president of the Senate, for ten years.

SUSAN ROGERS: Can you tell me about any disappointments you've had, or any controversial fights?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, there were many of them, but you know, I tried not to ever let those things bother me, or I never dwelt on them. If I had a disappointment, when I walked out of the Senate chambers I forgot it because you could take those things to bed with you, and bring them home with you and brood about it and not accomplish anything. So I would try to forget the disappointments. There were many, as I said. I served under several governors. The first governor that I served under was a Republican, and then a Democrat, and then two more Republicans. I got along just as well with the Republicans as I did the Democrats. In fact, Jack Williams was a Republican who appointed me to three different state agencies.

SUSAN ROGERS: Can you tell me a little bit more about some of the personalities that you worked with?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, I knew Governor McFarland very well, I knew him before, when he was in the United States Senate, and then when he was governor I knew him and worked well with him. I’ve known Barry Goldwater ever since he got into politics, and considered a close personal friend. I knew Paul Fannin, Jack Williams, and Governor Castro. I've known him for many years, long before he was governor. Richard __________. Wesley Bolen, the secretary of state - I consider him a personal friend, of maybe twenty-some years __________.

It's been interesting, I've enjoyed it, and we've met many wonderful people.

SUSAN ROGERS: I don't have any other questions that I can think of about when you were senator. Is there anything you want to add?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: It's hard to put your finger on anything. But I served ten years in the Senate for Coconino County. Then I served eight years on the Coconino County Board of Supervisors. The eighteen years that I've served Coconino County I've enjoyed very much, and the people were good to me, and it was really a pleasure and a privilege to serve the people of that county for that many years.

SUSAN ROGERS: Do you want to tell me how you decided to move to Lake Montezuma?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, we lived in Flagstaff all our life. I lived there all my life, and we had lived there practically all of our married life. We used to come down here - when this first opened up, we'd come down and play golf, and enjoyed the climate. We'd come down in the wintertime and find days like this, a lot of bright SUNNY days, and we just liked it and thought maybe this might be a nice place to retire. We weren't too happy about living in a large city like Phoenix, and Flagstaff just seemed to get colder, and the winters got longer as we got older, and this seemed to be in the middle. The winters are nice and the summers are nice. It doesn't get too cold in the winter and doesn't get too hot in the summer. It's sort of in between, and we're still close to Flagstaff. We can run up there in a few minutes. Or if we want to go to Phoenix and shop, we can run down there in just a few minutes. It's a pretty nice location and we like the climate and we like the people. We have a lot of wonderful friends here. We've had that every place we've lived.

SUSAN ROGERS: So, how many years have you lived here?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, I got off of the Board of Supervisors in '73, and we moved down here in '73.

SUSAN ROGERS: Tell me a little bit about your work on the Board of Supervisors, what you did, I’m not too familiar with their functions.

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Well, the county has three supervisors, and it's divided into three districts. And the district I served was the north and west part of Flagstaff and everything north of Flagstaff which was Cameron, Tuba City, Page, and Fredonia - a large, sprawling area, and a lot of travel. It was a little bit difficult, but I enjoyed it. To have to travel clear to Tuba City or Page or Fredonia, I tried to do that as often as I could to work with those people and the problems they had - problems like streets, roads, law enforcement, education, and things like that. But I enjoyed doing it.

I felt especially obligated or maybe prejudiced toward the people in Fredonia because they were so remote and so far removed from everything. I felt they needed special care, and I tried to help them as much as I could. The same with Page or Tuba City. Of course Tuba City, a Bureau [of Indian Affairs (Tr.)] town, __________ I didn't have to get too involved there - not nearly so much as I did in Page or Fredonia.

SUSAN ROGERS: How often did you travel?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: Oh, I tried to get to those places at least once a month. Of course, I saw Page grow from NOTHING into a nice community. The first time I went to Page, I was in the Senate, and this happened in the middle fifties. Carl Hayden was the United States senator from Arizona, a very good friend of mine, and we were trying to decide on which side of the river they would build the town of Page. Well, Arizona, and especially the people of the northern part of Arizona, wanted the town on THIS side of the river. And Utah was putting up a real fight to have it put on THEIR side. So I was selected to go to Washington with another fellow to see Senator Hayden about having the town established on the Arizona side, and we were successful in getting it established there. This was before there was even a STREET in Page.

The first time we went to the site of the dam, there was a road of sorts to within about five or six miles of the dam site. And then from there we climbed up on a tractor, and they drove us right down to the dam site. They said, "This is where the dam will be." So the next day, we drove back and drove clear up into Utah and back down to the OTHER side of the dam, which was, I don't know, maybe a thousand feet from where we were the day before, but we had to drive about 400 miles to get there.

SUSAN ROGERS: I think that answers pretty much all of my questions. Can you think of anything you want to add, or Mrs. Prochnow, can you think of anything you forgot or that you want to add?

ROBERT PROCHNOW: No, I can't think of anything now.

SUSAN ROGERS: Okay, then I'll turn this off.

[END OF INTERVIEW]